For bang-for-the-buck, I am really enjoying the Sivga P-IIs with some oratory EQ.
Alright, I am going to seperate my points here on the 177x to kinda get points across.
Complaints: this did NOT pair well with my liquid spark and topping d10. It created a strange lighter thin sound that just did not sound very good and killed the bass and guitar riffs in many songsā¦ upon attempting to tweak the bass it caused massive distortion. Started to think these were faulty so I plugged them into my onboard audio since they are just 32 ohms. This fixed the sound immediately. Having an amp/dac that compliments these would be good just not my setup however at 32 ohms an amp/dac is not necessary these were decently loud enough. Other complaint was I couldnāt seem to get them to comfortably fit my head kinda wobbled and didnt properly seal with the velours this was fixed with the leather cushions get into that in a minute. It could be that this particular product is defective or an accident happened. They were used only bout 4 times by my buddy who sent these to me he stated thats how they were out of the box so I have reached out to drop for support they do sit somewhat awkward as if they are off center.
Amps: Sundara sounded better on my liquid spark+d10 than the 177x. Both do not need amps due to low ohm however, sundara is more demanding. 177x sounded a hell of a lot better on my onboard audio. I would say you would need to look a bit more into amp/dacs sound they can provide to really bring these to full potential. Both headsets respond very well to amp sounds
Equalizer: 177x responded a lot more to the equalizer, peace apo, I use than the Sundara. I didnāt feel the Sundara needed to even make use of this outside of maybe more bass which it does respond to. 177x had some heavy distortion to the equalizer while being plugged into my amp/dac and bass being increased which was unfortunate.
Bass: I have tried a lot of closed backsā¦ mainly for gaming. The 177x things are definitely in my top 3 for best bass. Not over the top and not light by any means. They have a very deep and somewhat heavy satisfying bass. at the same time itās not so over the top that it takes over the song. Leathers will increase this by a good margin. However, I donāt like the leathers get into that in a minute. This would beā¦ my number 2 right now for best sounding bass with the 1990s coming out above these since I feel those are just more satisfying with these pads. Sundara actually loses here in, while the sundara has a very agreeable bass the 177x is just so much more satisfying probably due to closed back nature
Sound stage: I personally feel this could be better if not improved. The velours are niceā¦ but the staging is not wide which disappointed me. However, upon switching to the leathers I did notice a subtle increase on the staging and better bass it may be possible to pad swap these to something else that can help with this issue. Thatās not to say itās bad staging its just not very wide which isnāt my preference. Sundara wins hands down over these in this department due to the open back airy design and I feel the padding is better for what they do.
Imaging: good and on point. Great for immersion in games and music. Suffers from smaller staging otherwise I have no complaints here These two are close to each other. but in terms of accurate imaging I felt that Sundara was subjectively better. In terms of comparison we can call them close to even here.
Treble: this was my biggest complaint especially in the beyerdynamics. 1770 had quite the insufferable treble for me along with the driver rattling. This version fixed both of those and tuned it to a very acceptable degree. Personally I find the treble on these perfect. It is definitely a higher treble but itās not uncomfortable by any means. The treble are higher on the 177x compared to the sundara while I feel the Sundara have more agreeable highs. This makes these two to be more subjective and depending on taste on sound.
Detail: shockingly good. I canāt comment much on this outside of really good crisp detailing. Due to the increased sound stage and imaging on the sundara I feel the sundara just had great detailing. Honestly, in this case, in gaming terms, sundara would be better for competitive while 177x would be better for immersion. They are both very detailed and acceptable on many levels.
Pads: okay so for 177x velour is definitely more breathable. Moderate comfort I feel could be a little better for a closed back but I am used to leather or sheepskin on my pads for a closed back and may be a little biased. Velour provides a good bass clean sound and great detail. Leather makes the bass more in your face treble is increased to me itās a little bit much for these. Sound staging is improved for leather but barily. If it wasnāt for the treble hike I would prefer these leathers more than the velour. May be worth looking into a dekoni or brainwavz alternative it could help the staging bass and other sounds for 177x. I came to the conclusion that if you want that beyer classic sound experience go with the velour want that bass heavier sound go with a leather on these. Sundara on the other hand later on down the line switched to these newer pads I believe called Pali pads. Correct me if im wrong on that. Anyway, to me the pads are very comfortable however in my case they are to small for my ears leading to rubbing and discomfort over the top of my ears. There are alternatives for this that are just as comfortable wihle keeping the sound. You can refer to my other post where I asked for comparisons for the Sundara. One of our fellow forum members chimed in with details on different pads. Personally I felt that the 177x takes the win here. It doesnāt feel as heavy as the Sundara on your head and is very comfortable with its padding. Changing the pads could very well alter this and the comfort between these is subjective.
Sound Signature: this is where things get dicey. Okay so starting off with the 177x. Itās a U signature albeit not a horrible stretched bad U. Itās light and feels like its closer to a neutral sound. Much like the 1990s are designed closer to neutral unlike the 990s which are an incredibly sharp V. the 177x wins in lows and highs by a hefty margin while the mids are still acceptable they arent horribly recessed or anything for that matter. This makes the 177x a fantastic all rounder. I found that it can listen to a wide variety of music without much issue. Thanks to the higher treble and raised highs it makes things like ingame footsteps and the like more prominent. However, the biggest draw back with these headphones for me was sound staging from its signature and overall seperation of sound it felt a little melded and the staging was to small. I feel it could be so much better if the sound was Wider. As the sound itself on these already feels fairly open despite being a closed back. These are very enjoyable. If someone were to ask me if I recommend these as a go to all round closed back I would have a resounding YES to these especially in its price bracket where you can find these from $300-$400. When it comes to the Sundara however, these are a veryā¦ needless to say unique sound signature. They respond pretty well to amps. The highs on these are pushed back but are detailed and smooth, mids are not in the back they are very balanced, low end is definitely there and it shows. The headphone is very cohesive and layered unlike the 177x these sound very WIDE with incredible seperation. Vocals are layered perfectly. you get that satisfying punch from the Planar magnetics from these and I have been in a bit of a bind to find a similar headphone to these due to just how unique these are. The issue that I say with the sundara is they are NOT ideal for competitive AT ALL. The issue is the trebleā¦ theres a lack of it and its definitely noticeable here. Itās not focused enough to be properly used in a competitive fps. The 177x has a better time in this department despite not being ideal for competitive either and is only better due to the U shape signature it has where the treble and highs are more noticeable. The sundara is definitely not bright enough to be ideal. You would be better with a dt 990, 6xx, or 1990 in the case of competitive gaming as they have a more treble forward signature than both of these. Immersion wise I found everything more enjoyable on my sundara EXCEPT the bass but again thats just meā¦ I still found great enjoyment in the 177x. These two are completely different from each other and itās relatively confusing. As far as the sundara is concerned it is one of those that is a ātry to really experienceā type of headphone meanwhile if you have tried the 770 or 1770 you have a general idea of what that 177x can provide. It definitely feels like an upgrade to the 770 but in a good way while it is a better version of the 1770 and fixes its flaws.
Final notes: This is Subjective and from MY point of view and field or hearing. People hear and experience things differently. I highly recommend you test headphones yourself if you can. I did see you commented that you have a 4xx. I tried the previous version of the 4xx the 400i which is incredibly similar. I will say that the Sundara blows these completely out of the water. I will say that I do believe that the 177x is firmly a lot better than a 400i as well albeit not as unique of a sound. If you love the 4xx you will definitely fall in love with sundara. I would say this one is subjectively up to you. I would keep an eye on Head-Fi, ebay, and Headphones.com for these particular headphones especially sundara. Sundara over there goes on sale on Headphones for $259 open box(these are the fixed models of the hifiman and are seen to supposedly have less flaws in them thanks to the fixed designs at least according to hifiman) you can also get these straight from hifimans open box for $299. This makes the 177x more expensive. I would weigh your options a bit if you have an audio store I would test out the 770/1770s first hand as you already have a general idea of how the sundara sound thanks to your curent headphone.
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Thoseā¦ look exactly the same as the Sendy Aiva planars outside the headband thats oddā¦
Blob b20 ,sivga p-ii , sendy avia, and monoprice m 570? All share the same driver and have similar tuning
The hecks the point of that? Just different sounds?
@Falenkor thanks so much for your detailed review. Iām reading it a few more times to digest it fully, but sounds like the 177x will compliment my 4xx right now. The only other closed back I have are the Retroās so I might get the 177x first since the 4xx is working for me atm and get the Sundaraās eventually. Iām curious of the Beyer sound and build quality anyway.
I would try the other alternatives to it the 770 and maybe the 1770 provided you can actually audition themā¦ itād be quicker and in the 770s case cheaper to your wallet as these 3 sound similar just the 177x sounds better more refined and a better bass. 177x is a massdrop item. it takes time to come in and returns can be a big hassle in some cases. however, your choice on this one. I hope I could help and I definitely hope you can find enjoyment in the headphones cause these are definitely really nice. Do let me know when you get them what you think.
maaan you recommended me the pm-50s after I said the sundara pads were to smallā¦ I opened this box and these are likeā¦ baby ear size lol the hell alrightā¦ I will give them a fair shot anywayā¦ but those pads are no go for me man.
Have said a few times theyāre pretty much on-ear cans (also mentioned and discussed in all the reviews). Once pads are a little broken in and you adjust the headband theyāre comfortable af. Been wearing mine for pretty much a week straight with no fatigue or discomfort. Took me a minute to adjust tho, since I didnāt expect the pad size.
Andover is also coming out with larger pads this year because of requests for it.
going to try to switch out to the other padsā¦ the ones that came on it are ultra padded but the other pair is a little more to my ear sizeā¦ looks like its attached by a snap on feature.
Yea. Iāve used the others. Turns out I like the big fat ones more. The small ones thin out the bass / clean up the sound a bit imo even though theyāre initially more comfortable.
Also turned them around in my hands a bunch to help break the big ones in (my ears still donāt entirely fit inside of the hole, but it isnāt a problem once the big ones are broken in).
My ears are to big to even remotely fit into the fat ones unfortunatelyā¦ and yeah I just switched themā¦ it doesnāt sound right to me with the thin bass. Going to sit with these for abit but I will switch back to the fatter pads.
Yea, I donāt have small ears either and they definitely donāt fit inside, so I set the cups a little forward, rest the opening as much as I can over the opening of the ear, and then beat the pads into submission pretty much. The reason these pads are so comfortable and squishy is so that they arenāt uncomfortable while being pretty much on-ear.
I will post my thoughts on these pm-50 later on. My initial thoughts probably today and then maybe update it tomorrow or so. These are definitelyā¦ for the most part interesting. However these currently sound more in tune with a 4xx from hifiman than a sundara. I say tomorrow because Tomrorow I plan to spend the day trying out the Dan Clark AEon
Have to disagree thereāthe Blon and the Sivga sound similar, the Aiva has more of a treble peak, and the M570 is tuned completely differently (and poorly). The company that makes the shells and/or drivers leases their design out, apparently. (Sorry for the digression)
no your fine. I was actually curious about that. Thank you for that insight. They do look stunning I will give them that but I have no intention to pay $600+ for a headphone at this time.
$399 on the Sivgas with a less-strident trebleā¦thatās why I mention them!
ah, ok. I actually like a bit of treble in my headphones though it gives it some brighter characteristics. Not to the extreme though of course
@Falenkor how much of an āupgradeā is the 177x compared to the 770? In your opinion, is the price difference worth it?
Let me thinkā¦ I will have to have to go a little more in depth here. So, 177x is based around the 770 not the 1770. They share the same drivers. 177x is a heavier than the 770s. 177x is based on the 250 ohm version of 770 but reeled in to 32 ohms making it compatible for mobile, console, and pc. 177x has less clamping force than 770. cable is detachable mini xlr on 177x no seperate coiled cable like you get with the 770 however tradeoff is you get a 4 pin xlr which is the connector for a balanced amp setup. 177x actually sounds good and powerful on phones unlike many headphones with low amp requirements. 177x responds extremely well to different amps, more so than the 770s, so much so that it can drastically alter the sound(this is why it responded so poorly to mine I just donāt think I have a good amp choice for this) I actually had to look into this as I thought it was an issue on my endā¦ no it just responds that heavily to different amps. in comparison to the 1770, and in some cases the 770, the 177x has been smoothed out and levelled so its not uncomfortable for people as it was a fairly common complaint for this particular series especially on the 1770s that in some cases it was sibilant or the treble and highs were just way to much. the sibilant that can be found on 770 and even the 990 i didnt find in the 177x. the u shaped tune you get from the 770 is much less severe on the 177x its dialed back a notch. Bass is more controlled than the 770. mids are better than the 770, vocals are warmer and forward compared ot the 770 which is an improvement, highs are definitely more forward but it really feels that its at that just right value. Do I think itās an upgrade? Most definitely. Do I think itās worth the money? Subjectively speaking yes I do but I would say it depends on your overall budget. These are nice but the 770 250 ohm is good too these are better but they also cost more. I would see it as a upgrade to someone who already knows the 770 250 ohms owns a copy and a good amp who is now looking for a good further upgrade to what they already have. Is it worth it out of the box again this is subjective but personally speakingā¦ I would say I would buy these if I wanted a closed back in this price rangeā¦ I would be a little hard pressed to find a better one in this caseā¦ there are others of course but I enjoy the way this signature is
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