I thought it was overall rather sloppy sounding, it’s not really refined in how it goes about things. It lacks clarity and can be boomy and kinda mask things that doesn’t happen on other dacs. It’s got nice timbre and is pretty colored, but also sounded somewhat dynamically compressed and an unnatrual presentation, sometimes rather usually harsh at times. Their design ideas tend to seem solid but their implementation tends to be subpar. Admittedly that’s kinda the sense I get from most audio gd products even their higher end products, where I just feel like there is better you can get for the price
Hmmmm I think it would depend on your sonic goals, it would smooth out both the amps, give a bit warmer tone, but for some might relax a bit too much although it does maintain detail and is pretty capable. I think if you wanted to tilt the amps a bit warmer and smoother it would be a solid choice
ok, thank you. those are the issues I was worried about. So this is a case where a budget DS DAC beats out a more expensive although relatively budget R2R DAC (?).
my potential chain at this moment, in reverse, is Sundara – Lake People/ Cavalli TH —Zen/Modius/R2R 11.
I have the Sundaras and the Lake People and the Zen.
The Modius, R2R11 and Cavalli TH and THX MAssdrop 789 are on the horizon as possible additions.
What do you think of possible synergy combinations, assuming the Sundaras are the one thing that has to stay? (if you don’t mind).
I mean some like the massdrop airist r2r was something I prefer over the audio gd at a similar price at least in the us if you wanted a colored and enjoyable r2r in this range, but again this is just my thoughts, there are many happy audio gd owners, but also many that aren’t fans as well
I think with the lake people you already have a better sounding amp than the 789 imo, I would skip thx with what you already have personally. I think if you are looking for an amp upgrade, what type of sound are you after?
The modius is a good pick if you like the zen but want something a tad more laid back but an upgrade in technicalities. I think there is a performance gap between like 200-700 usd for dacs, where if you go with like a modius or enog 2 pro, the stuff past that but under like 650 are very marginal upgrades and if you spend more than 650 you tend to get dacs that are more substantial improvements
ok. I’m after a sound that would bring out the holographic quality of Chamber music and solo cello. The precision is important but, and I don’t know if this makes sense, but I want to feel the strings, the notes, as if they were around me.
I guess I want an analog sound with lots of presence.
Hmmmm, if you wanted something with a smoother more natural sound with a pretty large stage, the monolith liquid platinum will deliver, also a direct upgrade would be the lake people g111 as it pretty much improves on what the 109 has to offer while being a bit more natural. In that range you also have the rebelamp which is pretty sweet for a more colored and spacious sound
Interesting, thanks. The rebel amp sound very interesting. Lake people 111 too, although the price is a little more prohibitive.
I wonder if i can get my hands on a used LP here in Europe.
Check headfi sales thread, I’ve bought stuff there from other European members. Just have to wait for something you need to show up or simply post a want to buy. I got my RNHP and Lcd2c that way.
I got my Liquid Platinum locally in Spain through Wallapop as well.
If R2R dacs use resistors, how could they have precise value when resistance changes with heat?
Maybe that’s the reason they have a warm-up time. Maybe the temperature becomes more stable after that time.
The best thing about playing PCM with delta-sigma dacs (the one with 1 bit DSD input) is that you can convert them to DSD. All the PCM to DSD conversion can get handled by a software with more horsepower. The only thing the dac needs to do is low pass filtering.
Good question. I’m sure someone else can answer 100% better than I can. I’ve always understood that that’s why it needed a warm up time, like you said, to get to a stable temperature.
The rest of what you said is above my pay grade. I wonder if someone can chime in.
Are you saying that this function os DS dacs makes r2r obsolete in theory ?
The fact is that most DS dacs only truly convert 5 or 6 bits and then upsample that to the default bitrate. This results in overly etched and harsh sounding upper frequencies.
Yes that’s why I said 1 bit DSD. I don’t like 5/6 bit dacs either. I use a DSD1793 dac and when it is playing PCM, the sound is harsh and congested. But the good thing is that when it is playing DSD, the output in true 1 bit (many other DS dacs still do some processing for some reasons).
What happens with PCM to DSD conversion by a software is that all the processes happens digitally with much higher precision compared to what DAC chips can do. Now it’s like I’m using a modern DSD dac instead of an old DSD1793.
Whether 1 bit DSD dacs or R2R dacs are better is debatable, but they’re better than 5/6 bit dacs for sure. The difference is more significant in older dacs and not so much in the newer ones, though.
It is known, because this though there are two parts.
All the resistors over time will end up at the same “operating” temperature.
This is one of the reasons why it’s best to leave R2R DACs on. The Yggdrasil btw needs to be on for the better part and if not an entire week to stabilize. It makes DAC swapping a bit hard.
This is one of the more interesting threads around here. A good mix of high knowledge and experience, and an easy to understand description.
I have learned a lot from this and thx to all contributers
A couple of weeks ago I bought the ifi iPowerX because Hans Beekhuyzen convinced me that it made a difference to the sound of my zen dac. I tried it out and heard no difference at all. I was about to return it today and decided to try it again just in case. I don’t know why but today I heard the difference clearly - everything bigger, louder, wider, more detailed. I don’t want to exaggerate. It’s not night and day but more like a 25-30% difference at least. So I think I’ll keep it. I was also a bit annoyed that the price is 2/3 that of the zen dac itself.
Anyway, I only mention that because I was wondering if the power supply issue and power cords is as big an issue in R2R dacs, or is there a different power implementation that makes it less relevant?
I’ll be trying out an Audio GD R2R11 in a few days because its the closest R2R I can get on loan for a while. Will this power supply/power cord thing be of any relevance? What do you guys think, what have you experienced? Is the stock cable optimised for the dac itself or is it always better to uprgrade?
