Thanks for the heads up!
How does the Hel perform in comparison? I was thinking about selling the Fulla 3 and going with the Hel instead as I like that it’s a single unit and not multiple units. My home desk is not super large and the reason I went with the Fulla 3 in the first place was it’s a small form factor and a single cable.
Is the Hel a worthy upgrade?
So this gets interesting… The Fulla 3, Hel, and Heresy are the same amp wise with 4, 6, and 8 op amps respectively. The Fulla 3 and Hel have the same DAC but difference is the HEL MUST have a seperate and specific USB power where as that is optional on the Fulla 3.
So the question to you is how cable management and being honest with yourself. The heresy/Magni 3+ is honestly all you need for most $500 and below headphones and will be there if you get a new DAC. The Hel will suit your needs as well but with the Sundara you still might prefer a bit more power. Regardless, you will still be plugging something into the wall with powering the Hel or Magni.
If looking at the Hel, also cross shop with the Mayflower Arc if you want a single piece amp/DAC/mic or ADC.
In terms of sound, Would the Hel be a step up over the Fulla 3, or is it just more power for the Sundaras?
Also in terms of sound, what is the difference between the Arc and the Hel? The “Used” Hel’s can be had for $169, although Schiit has high shipping prices and 15% restock fee on returns if I didn’t like it (Basically why I ended up keeping the Fulla 3, after paying shipping both ways and restock fee, to return it, would of cost me over half the cost of the unit itself).
In terms of my review, am I missing anything between the two? I keep seeing raving reviews of the 560s comparing it to the Focal Clear or others saying the detail is not much better than the Sundara’s, but I don’t see it. The Sundaras, to me, have much more detail and clarity. Am I doing something wrong with the 560s?
I doubt you are doing anything wrong with the 560s but they benefit from what I have read from a better amp as well. The 560s are just higher impedance where you will find the power out for the Fulla 3 for higher impedance headphones is… Well maybe it’s better to say is not.
Personally I use my Fulla for a mic in and back up dac. I think all out replacing it is silly as it works with my $4k or something amp/dac setup still. Can’t the Hel could do that.
Any thoughts on the Fiio K5 pro? I can get one for $129 right now and more powerful than the Hel.
Ordered the K5 Pro off of Amazon, I guess it will arrive today (Same day shipping). I’ll test both with this dac/amp and see how it changes my opinion on them, excited to try it out!
I really want to buy the Sundara but afraid of the build quality. I have read so many bad things about the bad build quality and driver issues. I wish they would have fixed this.
I have the K5 Pro. It’s awesome
If you order it on Amazon after October 1st, you have until January 31st to return them.
While not a lifetime policy, I would expect after 3 months of use any issues will come to light.
build quality has improved so if you buy the Sundara, get it new and you should be quite alright. Out of the non flagship headphone’s the Sundara has been reported to be pretty consistent as of late.
The product blurb on Amazon.ca says “With its all metal headband the SUNDARA is built to take the rigors of urban street life. The SUNDARA is as tough as it is beautiful.”
The second and third of five Canadian user reviews say:
The product blurb also says “Featuring Newly Developed Diaphragm that is 80% Thinner than the HE400 Series”.
Thinner diaphragms were the nemesis of the high-end Audeze models, not so long ago. These two user reviews suggest the same may be true in this case. Do diaphragm failures typically occur in the first three months? Seems reasonable. If so, one could take the apparently 10% gamble against getting a faulty driver(s) pair, return as many times as needed, then end up with that thin-driver goodness and fairly rugged shell construction to boot.
(It’s all theoretical to me. The Canadian Amazon price is currently $489 thanks to our weak dollar.)
Both reviews are from 2019, DagoRed was saying recently there have been many less issues. It’s common for companies to improve manufacturing processes and errors on products as time goes on if problems arise.
Not sure if that is true or not, but you have to take into account that they may have resolved the problems or reduced them in the last 12-18 months.
Yeah, to me it’s apparent they quite literally do not care. Unfortunately, it’s just an issue with their company as it’s not only the Sundara but multiple products in their line. Sundara has been out for 3 years and still gets the same issues. Thankfully, there is some warranties and other companies that are more understanding like APOS have started to carry them. The problem remains though that their headphones could kick the bucket just randomly. My Ananda kicked it when I set it on the table, picked it back up and the right speaker went out(company tried arguing with me about repair and accusing that I may have broken it which I filed a massive complaint about later with them as the person tried to refuse repair/return & refund), My last two sundaras busted as well as a 400i. They have massive QC issues and are just hit or miss. Headphones sound amazing and they would be much better off if they fixed all the problems. Would 100% trust Sennheiser or Audeze over hifiman any day of the week. Really wish there was a better company making bright sounding planars.
Good writeup though, was a nice read.
Just went through the Amazon global user reviews with 1, 2 and 3 stars. Still a handful report driver failures (don’t see any other QC issues) in 2020 dating from April. Pretty small sample size, for sure, and could be part of an upward trend.
Think Audeze has gotten a handle on doing reliable ultra-thin drivers by now, so could be just a matter of time before Hifiman does so as well.
Don’t be afraid of the quality of their headphones.
I had the HE4XX’s for several months and although I grew to hate the sound, the quality was perfect.
I bought the Sundara’s several months ago and I love the sound and the quality has been perfect after several months and Lots of use.
I just purchased and am waiting for a used set of Edition XX’s.
I mention all the above simply to point out the quality is just fine. Of course there are problems and defects with any company and HiFiman has certainly had more than their share in the past.
I personally have no fear in buying any of their products. I would really like to try the Arya’s but they are too pricey for me. 
Agree. I can drive my HD 560s from my iPhone 12, but the clarity and resolution improve quite a bit when driven from the high-gain mode of my TempoTec Sonata HD Pro DAC-amp dongle.
what do you mean by high-gain mode? You use an adapter before plugging the headphone in?
The TempoTec Sonata HD Pro has an automatic gain sensor. It uses low gain for lower-impedance, high-sensitivity headphones and high gain for higher-impedance, low-sensitivity headphones.
Both my Sennheiser HD 560s and HiFiMan HE-400se International are cans that fall into a purgatory between those two poles, and the Sonata HD Pro senses them as only needing low gain when they really need high.
There’s an easy trick to circumvent that. Take a 3.5-male to 3.5-female adapter – $6 at Amazon – and plug it into the Sonata first. That “tricks” the unit into switching into high gain, regardless of what equipment is plugged into it. Then plug the USB-C cable into the other end of the Sonata and then plug the Sonata into your source device – phone or laptop. Finally, plug your headphone cable into the female end of the 3.5-3.5 adapter.
Bingo. A bit of a pain in the ass, but you’re always in high gain.
thanks for the explanation, i knew that was possible i just wanted to make sure. Also, would it work the same by just plugging the wire in without the headphone attached and then plugging the wire in the headphone? It should work if i understood the process correctly. This way you would not have to have another thing attached to the dongle, which can be annoying in certain situations.
Yes on the alternative. That’s what I do with my HD 560s. I plug the 6.35 female to 3.5 male adapter into the Sonata HD Pro first, then connect the dongle to my source and finally plug the 6.35 male end of the 560s cord into the female end of the provided adapter.
No need for 3.5 to 3.5 adapter for the HD 560s since it already requires an adapter to use with 3.5 ports.
right i forgot about that!
