have you tried the turtle beach recon 500? curious your detailed analysis
haven’t tried the mmx300 but TYGR vs 560s
TYGR is better built at the cost of maybe being a bit sharp on the treble (ymmv some people are bothered some aren’t) (signature Beyer V shaped sound)
560s is a more balanced sound which can be better for gaming (lot of gaming youtubers use these) and has a detachable (stupidly long) cable
soundstage, imaging and comfort between the two is pretty similar (if headphone clamp is a issue for you the TYGR is better out of the box)
TLDR TYGR is more fun I prefer it for music 560s is more balanced I prefer for gaming
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I think I have to push back against this. I am one of those people who is especially sensitive to sibilant treble and the TYGR is nothing like the DT 770; I’m not sure who thinks they have treble spikes or that it’s sharp - I’ve been listening to mine off a Modi 3+/Bifrost 2 and a handful of different amps and have never experienced sharp treble at all.
I understand everyone is different and YMMV but I just wanted to be upfront before someone is scared off because they think it sounds like the 770 or 880. It’s way warmer.
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I totally appreciate your feelings about this. But as I said in my first post in this thread, whether a spike is there and whether you hear it are two different things. I’ve yet to find anyone who hears the treble spike in my DT 1990’s, but it’s very definitely there. While I hate to see the DT 1990 being dissed, reviewers like Resolve who rant about the DT 1990 spike are not making their experience up. Their ears react to the DT 1990 spike by making it inescapable for those recordings that have significant content there. Yet forum member M0N, who pretty clearly has excellent hearing, does not have this particular sensitivity, so all he reports is that the 1990 is “a bit harsh”.
The ear canal is a tube. Like all tubes it potentially has resonant frequencies. Individual ear canals vary by nearly a factor of two in length, not to mention diameter, so different folks will have different resonance frequencies and with different levels of sensitivity.
So when I write that the TYGR has spikes, here they are:
Like you, I’m not seeing a lot of user reports of being bothered by them. But that doesn’t mean no one will be. There’s always a chance NewbieOne will be one of those unfortunate few. The first spike at 5 1/2 k is very nearly where the the infamous HD 800 spike is that so many people have spilled so much ink moaning about. The next spike is at 8 k but only half as tall as the DT 1990’s, so Resolve might give this particular unit of TYGR a pass.
I’d really like to see more people come to understand that we literally have different hearing experiences, but I realize it’s one of those Don Quixote dreams, grin.
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My video is actually for the Hifiman HE560, not the Senn 560s (although I like that one too).
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Okay, after some more digging through all the enthusiastic opinions (seriously, like no other pair of cans I’ve read about — dozens of extremely enthusiastic comments and like exactly just one, single critical view and one or two ‘good but not great’, otherwise everybody seems to love them) I’ve found some lone guy’s critical opinion raising a very serious concern about the mids. According to him, the mids are so downplayed and even muted that you won’t even hear — and this is the example he used — the howling wind in The Witcher 3. Can anybody confirm or deny this? I may like my trebles and I may be a bit jealous and clingy with my bass, but I would really hate to lose my mids. Open-world RPGs tend to lose a lot of the atmosphere if they lose the weather effects.
On a different note, in this forgotten corner of Europe I have found something that might surprise some of you guys from the States — several AudioQuest Nighthawks in good condition starting from $240. Reportedly they used to cost $600 back when the dollar I’m tempted to buy them if only for the historical value, but also the in-your-face defiant statement in favour of euphony over modern analytical study sounds, while actually having good stage — from what I read on the Internet. Much in those descriptions sounds like I would like them, except maybe I would miss the huge stage, perfect imaging and separation of some of the analytical studio phones hijacked, I mean, adapted to their needs by competitive gamers. 
One Polish reviewer refers to the Nighthawks as not actually that far from neutrality while of course already a little idiosyncratic, and he says the tuning is close to Sennheiser in a way, but more ‘royal’ in the presentation, while the polar opposite of Grado PS500e. He claims messy, chaotic recordings acquire a romantic, sentimental sort of mood. Less dynamics, less detail, more cohesion and more harmony. Good legibility without garishness, even with a little discreet shading. No nervous jumpiness, no stinging, no metalicity. Elegant spatial ordering, good blending (as an alternative to the modern focus on separation, I guess), everything complements each other. And just 25 ohms. And unmatches luxurious feel according to some other reviewer who claims to know a thing or two about luxurious cars most people can’t afford. I’m not a collector, but my wallet is already itching. Anybody want to give me the final push?
Next thing, I realized you could get a relatively decent amp/DAC (as in much improvement over none, not necessarily compared to high-end) and briefly considered actually getting one (and perhaps cheaper phones), but then I thought Orbit/Mobius is supposed to have its own amp/DAC built in. Same price as the Nighthawks. Of course one could buy the Nighthawks and drive them from the Titanium first and an amp/DAC later. They shouldn’t lose much value over time, might even gain some due to no longer being manufactured.
So at this point my shortlist looks like:
- Tygr — for the fun value and larger stage and more bass than 560s. And decent price and generous grace period for returns.
- 560s — for more neutrality than Tygr (no losing mins?).
And a bunch of mostly more exotic runner-ups:
- Fidelios (2, looking at 3) — fun value while having good params
- DT880 — somewhere in the back of my head due to liking the discriptions of how they sound.
- Mobius/Orbit — for 100mm planars, good 3D, no losing nothing (or so hoping), some selectable factory EQ to toggle between neutrality and task-specific enhancements.
- ATH-ADG1X — maybe just hoping it just might be an improvement on the AD line; those open ATs have a certain lure to them, though I doubt they truly might be the best phones in this contest.
- The Nightawks — might as well try them out and maybe sell them for like thirty bucks less if I don’t like them.
- Cheap used K702 that looks like the allegedly superior Anniversary Edition but isn’t labelled as such. And not really itching so much any more.
Re: sensitivity, thank you gents for taking care of a newbie so he that he neither hurts his ears nor unnecessarily skips out on a good set of cans. Given a 60-day return policy, I’d be happy to give the Tygr a chance and just return it if I can’t stand some of its trebles. I do have some some issues with hypersensitivity, but it’s hard to tell which exactly frequencies or what else to do with sound they’re triggered by. Something to do with the labirynth and neurological causes, I suppose. Runs in the family. I probably also top out on a bit higher frequency than most people, but that test was long ago and not very reliable. I wonder if there could be a way to find out by playing sound demos on my speakers. But in any case, I can always return the Tygr. Just like I would definitely return it if I failed to hear the wind in The Witcher 3.
Is there a way to escape the 560s vs Tygr conundrum by picking a third option that would be a clear upgrade rather than sidegrade from both?
@MrAyrit : Ooops! My bad, so sorry.
I’ve never heard the Tygr, but I own the Sennheiser HD-560s and the HiFiMan HE-400se, and I think the HE-400se are better than the 560s except for maybe imaging and mids. The 560s, like most Senns, are very mids forward.
You’ll struggle to find a better headphone than the HE-400se for music at the sub-$200 price point. It’s an exceptional planar-magnetic can for the price. It needs an amp to reach its full potential, but the same can be said for the HD-560s, too.
My HD-560s, Moondrop Starfield and Meze 99 Classics soon will be for sale. My HE-400se have become my blissful daily drivers, with little interest in hearing those other cans these days. That’s the highest tribute I can pay to perhaps one of the best values in audiophilia.
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Sounds to me like you’re pretty close to pulling the trigger on the 560s or TYGR. Not sure where you can buy from or what their return policies are, but at this point, I don’t think you’re gonna get any closer with research. I say pull the trigger on one and see what you think. You can always return / resell if you aren’t satisfied. Or, my style, buy one of each and keep the one you like.
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The TYGR I would be buying directly from Beyer. The 560s, depends, as there’s a used retailer that sells them for a little more than half a new unit’s price but witouth the cable, which I would need to buy separately. The same retailer also sells Fidelio 3 for like another 30 bucks more, also without cable.
So much reading I dont have the Time for a response. Will check back in the morning… if need be write a long message lol
essentially these are just gaming headset versions of their headphones… g1x over there is practically the same as an ad700x. They are decent enough
the only issue with them is they are generally very overpriced for what they are… Its not terrible but its not that great either.
they are decent for planars as far as gaming headsets are concerned… penrose is the alternative and the wireless one.
That would be… quite difficult to do without an amp/dac involved already alongside a dedicated microphone… like technically you can get some of these headphones for around $100-$125 even in the case of the beyers… but that doesn’t leave enough for an amp or mic. Budget wise… youd be looking at… around the price mentioned above for the headphone… atleast $140 for the amp/dac less its really low power requirement of which that can be reduced to around $70 then the mic itself is gonna be atleast $60.
quite a few one size fits all headphones out there just depends on preference…
no, that goes mainly to hifiman and zeus having the largest in that general price bracket to my knowledge currently. Its definitely not bad not at all… it just has some inaccuracies though everything else is honestly quite nice… I will say though its not the best in terms of bass as its more on the recessive side of things and the k702 in particularly is the brighter more analytical one of the bunch
as mentioned… its esentially just a gaming headset variation to ad700x without any real fixes. Its decent
They really dont change much with an amp to be quite honest… comparing this to $300 or higher headphones? eh? no. Bass bleeds into the mids, things can be a bit too distant at times, and the frequency response for me personally has been slightly inconsistent as some other models I tried sounded brighter than the original I sat with. Its good for what it is… a fun very large bassier headphone but in terms of any form of fps gaming or competitive? hard pass, id modify a shp9500 before I took a fidelio. X3 may dial back in the bass but its horrifically bright and I cannot recommend that one due to that whatsoever.
not worth the price tag since 400SE exists.
its a very flexible signature… and honestly not bad as far as gaming headsets are concerned… its just that other budget planars exist within its price bracket that make it a hard recommendation. like mentioned with 400SE. Essentially its competition with Hifiman less you really want that closed back… your getting Audeze at quite a cheap price with the orbit just keep in mind… orbit is quite hefty too.
if your after a very large soundstage this probably isnt it… however everything else this suits quite well… I personally find these extremely boring to listen to due to just how reference grade neutral they are but they are extremely nice… These are worth a try if possible
outdated remark, though still slightly relevant. As far as gaming headsets concerned and closed backs the best so far have been penrose for wireless, orbit for planar wired, PC38x for open back, and then you have the closed backs with arctis and mmx300… which I found mmx300 to exceed the performance of the arctis by a rather large margin in many different areas other than mid performance. Depends on the price you can get them for.
most likely no, the stage of the arctis is on the lacking side much like other gaming headsets
there is absolutely for that price…
I still own the tygrs… despite all the expensive equipment… tygrs are quite disgusting at how good they are for the price. My only issue with them is I wish they had better mids and a bit more detail… other than that no complaints.
eh on ear… wouldnt really recommend for this.
good, but not great. Fills a niche area imo. better for music creators. Its essentially an ampless very neutral sounding headphone which the signature is very similar to that of the HD560s. I personally dont think its worth its price point not when the DT 880 already exists… but everyones opinion will be different towards that.
hard pass
I am rather curious why they would even do that… they are quite different thats comparing dt 770 to the dt 990 as thats what the two are based on.
not particularly a fan of it, but to make it short… it wasn’t quite as bad as I was expecting. Its passable enough in its budget for an ampless gaming headset. Though I would never take it over say a pc38x or tygr or something.
^ yep agreed
Well, to be quite frank, I can definitely tell theres a slight peak there… of course its not as bad as other beyers but I do notice it from time to time that its there… some people are so sensitive to treble that this can be a problem but in like… every case I have seen this is typically not an issue with tygr. Better than the 990 for sure in that regard.
What? lol on the tygrs? They are recessive but thats extremely over dramatized like… really bad over dramatizing. Its a more slight recession that pushes the mids in the back in the signature… you can bring this up with EQ to balance it out if really needed but no… this doesn’t cause any issues whatsoever. Also, howling higher pitch winds are not mids those are treble and sometimes in the upper mids/lower treble. I wouldn’t be concerned about this whatsoever when it comes to that headphone… and if anything I would encourage trying it for yourself to see.
I will say this, if you like your treble… this isn’t the one you want lol. Thats a warm and dark headphone.
they do, they are built into the ear cups.
Pretty much, 560s is the more reference grade neutral… it will have better more present mids(sennheiser is known for good mids to begin with). Treble is about on even footing and tygr has more bass… Same time tygr may be seen as quite a bit more comfortable and less clamp heavy.
cant really recommend less your looking for something like this specifically but for overall performance eh, up to you.
only if you get a good amp for it
Depends on the signature really… Beyers like to be more V shaped but later on they become a bit more neutral… Clear upgrade with good size stage would require quite a price jump… youd be looking at something like DT 1990 / T1 2nd gen or for senheiser the Focal like Elex
I think it will depend on what you prefer in terms of signature… and what budget your really wanting to work with here… I would personally just say contemplate between Tygr, 560s, and 400SE as they not only require little power but will have essentialy what your looking for
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i mean your comparing $80 headset over ones double the price but it’s actually a good sounding headset especially if you run it through an amp lol
turtle beach made something that doesn’t go straight to the garbage? lmao
You can get an 880 770 or 990 at $100. Coolermasters are in the same ball park. Hence I say decent, not bad. Beyer just released new headsets though so I’m currently waiting on those. As far as price to performance I can recommend that turtle beach but only in the case of headsets
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I got curious at some point as something was wrong. I was thinking: ‘Impossible. They can’t just have designed a whole new open-back just for a gaming headset. This must be one of the existing ones.’ But while it looked very close to the AD700X, something was off with the parameters. I went to Audio-Technica’s own website in case retailers had messed the specs up, and it seem the ADG1X is right up there with the AD900X. It has the same 5–35,000 Hz frequency response and 1,000 mW input power, while the AD700X has 5–30,000 and 750 respectively. Are they just tuned differently or are we dealing with an AD900X plus mike that costs less than AD900X minus mike?.
There’s a guy who sells HD650 + Fx-Audio X6 for $250 both, in very good condition. Except I’m not sure that little AMP/DAC is better than the SBZ I’m getting tomorrow from my friend or the x-Fi Titanium I already have (I recall reading somewhere that Creative claims the Z can drive some 600ohm phones, of which 200-something is probably true; not sure about the Titanium). And both the 650 (however lovely it might be) and the X6 are small-stagers. For music alone, though, it’s tempting.
The descriptions make it look like it might be to my liking. Minus the QC issues. Them costing $85 used / $126 NIB (the latter just like K612) leaves some money on the table for an AE5 or an external DAC/AMP.
On the other hand, I’ve been reading about the K712, and it seems to be close in sound while easier to drive and better made (back in Austria again). Except a bit more fun than completely analytical signature, or so I read. Which might be good.
And breaks, I hear.
Perfect way of putting it. It’s not helping that I don’t even know how a more intimate or average stage sounds vs a larger one. Moving in a sound bubble wouldn’t be bad because it would reflect the party atmosphere and synchro with the mini-map in a way. But I guess you can’t beat a huge stage for open-world games.
$157 shipped in my case.
‘For gaming we recommend the MMX 300,’ was probably the whole logic behind it. Maybe the signature is less contentious? The price certainly is higher.
I read the 600ohm version is better about that, but I’m not sure about plugging that one into a SoundBlaster Z.
Thank you. 
I’m relieved.
Great.
I feel encouraged to try K702, K612, K712, AD500X and every one up to 1000 as well, 400SE and the Nighthawks. I may have caught the bug, I’m afraid. 
A Bettie Page of headphones?
Difficult to choose, sigh. How does the signature difference between 560s and Tygr translate into classical, orchestral tracks, movie soundtracks, epic motivational music, Scottish bagpipes (they’re great after the 30th hour at work), Loreena McKennitt, Enya, Chris de Burgh, the occasional jazz, and the kind of sounds and ambients you’d hear in a mediaeval, fantasy or sci-fi RPG?
How bad is SB-Z?
[quote=“Falenkor, post:24, topic:30509”]Clear upgrade with good size stage would require quite a price jump… youd be looking at something like DT 1990 / T1 2nd gen or for senheiser the Focal like Elex
[/quote]
Ironically, I overdid the research and ended up too tired to take on an overtime gig worth about as much as a pair of those. Maybe I should just stop with it and free up time in case there’s another opportunity.
I’m sure I’d be happy with any one of the three. Choosing without being able to listen to them is less easy.
I did say essentially they are different and 700x and 900x are very similar as well just 900x is technically better. I never sat and compared 900 vs the g1x so I cant comment on that
It’s good for the price honestly… it definitely can push around 300 ohm.
I’d go for 660s over 650… while 650 is a favorite the imaging is tighter on 60.
After the constant issues I’ve had with their products the only one I recommend is g6 which I can personally say drives 600 ohm beyers the others that claimed 600 ohm I had definitely did not
I personally prefer this or k7xx over k702 but I’m not a huge fan of their house sound when its analytical.
If it helps? I had 3 that did… always same issue with the buttons side going out.
Grab a headphone like a sennheiser of 500 series listen to it. Now grab a hifiman listen to it.
Bit subjective… some people like a more intimate worldly feel while others like the expansiveness
It’s a dt 770 retuned with a mic. 770 though does fine and is much cheaper usually. you can throw a modmic on it
Take it in steps… don’t rush it. I learned the hard way.
Hell go to the store if need be.
560s are very mid forward with raised highs but meh in the bass while tygr is bass and treble with mids pushed back. Both do well but it depends on how you like to listen… that really boils to preference
Thank you. Like I said, imma n00b. Well, I was hoping maybe for something like more separation, less congestion. I’ve just read some high praise of the 900X coming from a bunch of audiophiliac fps players having a long conversation in the comments under one of them’s blog post. Others chimed in. Kinda looks like something keeps drawing people back to the Audio-Technicas, even though they tend to be somewhat critical when describing its properties or technical quality. It was honestly confusing, because the same people emphasize transparency but also say the separation is lacking, and I’m like ugh… my brain doesn’t have the kind of resolution to differentiate between clarity, transparency and separation.
Indeed. The 660s would be way closer to it if I could get it for a good price. But when I saw the 650 and that little amp both together at 240 bucks total, my eyes lit up a bit. Still, gotta learn to rein in those urges because I’ve already been there with mechanical keyboards and ended up owning more than 20 simultaneously at some point. I’d rather not head down there with headphones before sorting out a couple of larger and more pressing expenses. I work in a profession that’s dying and won’t last till retirement while competition is tough, so I need to both crank up a serious marketing budget (a total waste for a one-man company) and an exit budget while it would be nice to go on holidays or upgrade the GPU every now and then, so I can’t splurge out too much. That’s making me both jump at clearly good bang-for-the-buck bargains but also very mindful that I can’t have it all. Maybe one, maybe two, definitely not more. Maybe if I end up having a nice amp/dac I’ll start zeroing in on sweet jackpot deals in the $80–150 range whenever I feel like having an extra birthday.
Thank you. My intuitive feeling was to not even look at those lower in line than the 6.
Oh man, that helped a lot. Thank you. With my budget it’s like well, I can afford them, per se. What I definitely can’t afford is replacing them every half a year if buying used, waiting a month on an RMA if buying with warranty, etc.
Probably inevitable.
Thank you. That’s comforting to hear, in a way.
Indeed. Too much work for a trip downtown (some 60 hours’ worth with an early Monday deadline), but there are at least one or two tech markets within walking reach. Nobody cares if you listen to the exhibition pieces, no letting down of a helpful salesman-owner like in a smaller specialized shop. At least I’ll update my ideas of what sounds like what by looking up reviews on the phone as I try them on.
I see. Thank you. Well, no mike for me. I have a long backlog of single-player RPGs and car rallies before I go back to multiplayer. So we can definitely skimp on the mike.
Gotta nail mine down then. I came in thinking I knew what it was, but the more I learn the less certain I am. Objectively speaking there’s a good chance I’m just a casual acting like a princess. I know I want cannon blast, let alone a broadside (though I don’t normally play the pirate gehre), to sound qualitatively and quantitatively more serious than just another handgun. I definitely enjoy the bassy moments with dragons and catapults and massive spell effects in the games I play, where in some cases the ground’s really supposed to be shaking and my desk was shaking under my hands when playing on desk speakers (and resolution, clarity, separation, etc. was certainly lacking, but the atmosphere was there). But there are a lot of those angelic/elven female vocals too, and the full gamut of medieval instruments or the kind of orchestral stuff that comes to mind when you think of Daniel Hope processing Vivaldi and other baroque tracks in his airy sort of ways (‘airy’ as in my subjective feel, most likely not the proper use of the technical term).
It’s kind of like… if needs to be crisp, then let it be crisp, and if it needs to be velvety, then let it be velvety, when it needs to be airy, then let it be airy and let it show perfect detail, separation etc., but when it has to be congested, then that’s what it should be, and if some rumbling and thumping bass or shrieking treble is supposed to leak into the mid range, then let it do so, but not of its own accord, not because of the headphone’s design or workmanship defect, not because of its individual signature or the manufacturer’s house sound but only because of the game developers’ intention. Which is obviously subjective and open to interpretation and those guys’ equipment definitely must have had some ‘house sound’ to it too, plus quite possibly most of the creators themselves probably didn’t overthink it like this but just used whatever they liked, processing it on whatever equipment they could affort, which obviously must have been a bigger budget than my house budget but certainly not unlimited, not even in AAA titles.
So this probably sounds like having a neutral signature/tuning per se, like no house sound, but being able to do everything well across the range and actually knowing what to do and, again, doing it well. Let’s say an even 8 out of 10 quality across the range (thinking lows, mids and highs, each further split into 3, for a total of 9 basic bands, maybe 27 or even 81 following the same principle but not necessarily 2187, as 729 would already be a blast), as opposed to 7/10 here and 9/10 there, and definitely not a mix of 6/10s with 10/10s, however tempting the 10s might be.
So perhaps we’re down to neutral and even but with the ability to both rumble/thump/roar and shriek/pierce, depending on what’s objectively needed right now in the game.
And good fidelity for metal vs plastic vs wood vs rock vs sand vs water (environmental) vs normal music instruments. With not too much distortion such as sounding metalic or plasticky due to the headphones’ build (cheap build comes to mind).
And something that would be — and please ignore this if it’s not helpful — let’s say, the acoustic equivalent or counterpart (and good companion) of playing in 2560x1400 @ high-ultra 45–50-ish fps (not the buttery smooth 60 or extended 120/144), with no artifacts (when playing for fun I’d rather my GPU/driver corrected them even where the devs had screwed up, no desire for ‘as recorded’ there, as opposed to when reviewing the game), and with some lag spikes or fps drops to 25–30 in the most demanding moments but not too much of that (the less than smooth experience at times is the price to pay for all the image quality). And visually I tend go for neutral ‘signatures’ with no unnatural gamma presets, no oversaturation (other than legit HDR, which obviously looks different from fiddling with RGB on 8 bit), etc., although VA’s natural perfect blacks and whites and high contrast tend to have a sort of appeal that IPS rarely can deliver (though my current monitor gets close). I wonder what approach to sound and music would be the best fit for this approach to the visuals.
Also, I’ve found Devas for $240 vs HE400SE for $171. Should I consider them?
I would sooner take the 700x due to budget… as 900x is not that much in terms of improvement imo. 1000x is the better one.
I mean, they are good headphones… they just suck at separation. Super budget friendly so alot of fps gamers like them… plus they are light weight like the typical gaming headsets too… makes them easy to grab and go.
600 series is nice and all just keep in mind that soundstage is very narrow… its much smaller than the others listed in this thread so far. If after a large stage then 600 series is definitely not what you want.
it can take a few weeks to acclimate to a new headphone to begin with… so buying multiple definitely isn’t the best idea.
the amp and dac is more of an investment… it most likely will outlast the headphones and then some, just some food for thought… at the same time amp and dacs can make thing sound a hell of a lot better while also allowing you to use a larger variety of headphone… That being said, as a gamer… I wouldn’t encourage any more than maybe around $300 ish for the amp and dac… since thats in the general range someone can get the schiit asgard 3 + modius for and I don’t see much reason to go beyond that less in the search of better sound quality as an audiophile.
As for the headphone, the higher you go generally the better the headphone… $200 is a sweet spot for gamers and around $400 is the “endgame” in many cases maybe slightly more since aeon, elex, argon, etc come into play slightly higher
it was admittedly annoying to deal with and why I just outright stopped using that headphone…
especially when starting new, its a good idea to get a general thought process on your own preferences…
if this is the case, you most likely aren’t going to be the biggest fan of that ad900x or k702… both are more bass recessive and take away from that, some food for thought. Same for the hifimans like 400se is also bass recessive. 560s is bass neutral for the most part so its not really capitalized.
that would be a more natural timbre sounding headphone for the most part… or even more analytical to keep things even the errors standing out… 560s, 58x jubilee, and dt 880 would fit in that… tygr isn’t the best case for “natural” but still works just fine. I suppose that new one DT 900 Pro X would fit into this equation as well…
being able to do everything appropriately, or rather “true neutral” has been chased for a long time… its just not particularly a thing… At the same time then you get teh Harman Curve which to the human ear seems to be the most natural sound presentation so you may want to search for one with that… Trying to think of the one with the harman curve that was cheap… I believe that was… AKG k371 to be particular… if you can find it to try it to see for yourself… granted 371 is slightly boosted above the curve ill post a graph below so you can see that
you can see the curve there meets up quite well with that one… 560s is another thats quite a bit close to the curve but the bass mainly in the sub bass is sunk in and it has a slight bright peak seen below
Tygr on the other hand definitely doesn’t follow harman
Harman Curve has been labeled as just flat or neutral in some cases… and generally is what people are after when they want that fits all spectrums sort of deal… one of the reasons I use the Aeon in particular actually is that its specifically designed for harman and damn good at that.
Rumble and roar wont really come with neutrality so to speak… itll drive itself but that hard hitting bass just doesn’t come from neutral… the shriek and pierce only comes from raised treble as well not neutral otherwise it just sounds balanced out.
deva are alright but youd really probably want a low latency setup for that… which would drag up the price on them, wouldn’t encourage such setup over the 400se
Thank you, @Falenkor Well, something I’ve realized today in the meantime is that there are gonna be multiple somewhat good opportunities to purchase used Beyers at quite good prices here in Poland, generally in the $70–80 range, including 880, 770, MMX 2nd gen (which I can get for a bit more but still less than $100), and so on, and the supply of the various AKGs is not gonna dry out. For some reason this realization has put me more at ease somewhat.
Thank you especially for the graphs. It does look like the K371 might have the ideal signature with just a little monkey business in the treble and a little raised bass, at least the latter of which is not a bad thing. The graph makes me think of the Classical EQ on my ancient JVC stereo, which is basically to raise all three bands equally (works great, resulting in a suprisingly agreeable listening experience even on a Bluedio, much unlike the experience with EQ off).
On a purely intellectual level, on the verbal aspect of this discussion, I probably should have pulled the trigger on the HD560s long ago, but something’s keeping me. For a moment, I almost came to terms with the decision to start with planars as my first serious headphones and skip the whole adventure and journey (however lovely it could be) with dynamic drivers. Great stage and imaging, even verticality, supremely natural timbre (good for sound effects, I guess), clarity and separation and all that jazz, with minor positional issues and generally agreeable if not wowing bass. Seriously, what more could one want, getting this kind of massive improvement for like $150. But somehow the pulling of the trigger on the HE400SEs didn’t happen. Perhaps so far it’s been Audio-Technica nostalgia, but I think I’ve probably managed to get over that. So maybe the K702 for $85 is beckoning at me? But, just today it’s been joined by 880 Special Edition 250ohm for the same price and MMX 2nd gen for just a bit more. It’s not like the world will come to an end if I buy more than one of them. Or if I wait a couple of days. Maybe givint it a couple more days before I decide what to buy is just what I need. Which would perhaps coincide with Black Friday deals on some of the more expensive stuff. The sole exception is the Tygr, which I fear could sell out from Beyer’s current stock. No doubt they will eventually replenish that, but if I was going to get Tygr at all, now would be a good time.
Plus, work’s piling up like crazy. I need… potions to stay awake. I’ve already passed up on one or two small jobs due to lack of time. So it looks like buying e.g. 770+880 at $80 each (used, of course) would be only marginally more expensive than e.g. spending 2 or 3 hours comparing their reviews. I’ve put up some alerts in case a used 1990 pops up, in which case perhaps I would jump at it solely to avoid losing hours of potential work time analysing, comparing and extrapolating reviews in the $150–300 range.
Re: amps and DACs, he SB-Z has arrived. It has a CS4398-CZZ DAC, JRC 2114 dedicated headphone AMP (Creative claims 600ohms, some guys online say nope but 220-ish is realistic) and JRC 4556A front amp. But my mind’s kinda drifting to Asgard or G6 or that Senn gamer thingy. Sigh, I’ll need to watch it lest it gets out of control.
Lastly, I’ve been toying with the idea of a buying some sort of cheap-ass used Alphas (or equivalent budget kings) with a broken mike as an interim solution, but it was not worth it compared to the price of NIBs, which then was not worth it compared to any of the used Beyers or AKGs, so I came back to the starting point. At this point I’m almost seriously thinking about just rolling 1d6. Or really waiting to see BF deals next week.
Edit: I caved in, at least a little. I took a peek in the vintage corner, and they had HD 530s for ~$100 and a HD 540 Gold Reference II 600 ohms in mint condition for ~$180. From what I gather, some people refer to them as the ‘poor man’s HD800’, some compare them to the 560s instead, and there are also some who say HD600s are better anyway. But there is pretty much a consensus about the stage being good and the timbre very natural, good speed, heavenly vocals, etc. Obviously hard to drive by something like the headphone amp on SoundBlaster Z or most other budget amps. Should I be getting these?
I wouldn’t see why there wouldn’t be… more so with beyers considering how old they are these days.
planars and dynamics have their own charms and are quite different in how they present themselves. I am rather fond of planars myself but theres not many I enjoy that are cheap
whole lotta decisions man, I can’t make that choice for you only try to help and guide with information.
cheapest I have seen a 1990 land was around $380 - $400 worth the money sure, but I would always encourage trying an 880 before a 1990 was considered… considering just how bright 1990 is as well and they are rather similar
assuming you mean the GSX… hard skip that piece of junk. Overpriced trash that can barely even drive 250 ohm beyers, doesn’t sound that good imo either…
g6 for gamer quality, asgard for audiophile quality… asgard is definitely leagues above the g6 in power, performance, and aesthetic however with the asgard comes a higher price as youll also need a dac… since this isn’t in the USA I assume its also quite expensive at that… Lake People is the alternative thats more friendly to those outside the US
I was never personally a fan of them myself especially not 540 gold over there which was rather peaky in the treble, I wouldn’t take that over a 560s personally…
that made me chuckle a bit… yeah, no. maybe in terms of frequency response sure… as 800 is rather bright and mid forward… but other than that? 800s overall sound quality and god forbid the ridiculous level of soundstage far exceeds that of the 500 series sennheisers