I’m currently trying to decide on the next step in my upgrade path, but haven’t been able to really make a decision. I own and have owned quite a lot of headphones ranging from a pre-fazor LCD-3, HE1000v2, Clear MG, Stellia, LCD-X 2021, Eikon, Atticus, Verité Open, Aurorus Australis, HE6se v2, HD 800S, Stax Lambda, and quite a few others. Of all these headphones, I honestly feel like the HE1000v2 was my favorite and I absolutely regret trading them for my Stellia. I’m currently looking to find something that can beat my love for the HE1000v2, and the obvious choice would be the Susvara, but I’ve also heard that it only beats it by a little and that it’s not worth over double the price. I have an LCD-MX4 on the way now, but judging from my experience with the LCD-X 2021, I’m assuming it still won’t beat out the HE1000v2.
So now I’m trying to think of what would get me to a point that’ll leave me thinking that I can sell all of my other headphones for and not be sad. The obvious picks are the Susvara, Utopia, LCD-5, and Caldera, but I’m also considering the Stax SR-007a considering how much I loved my Lambda. Obviously there are more out there, like the Shangri-La Jr., LCD-R, SR-009S, Voce, Expanse, Diana TC, etc., and this just leaves me scratching my head at what would really be worth it. Maybe Ryan from ModHouse’s new headphone? I really don’t know what would be best, so I’m just asking here for some help.
With me already saying that I loved the HE1000v2 the most of that lineup, that should answer my taste in headphones pretty well. HD 800S and Lambda both tied for second, with the Clear MG honestly beating my Stellia surprisingly… I mostly listen to orchestral/soundtrack and electronic, but I love pretty much all genres equally other than country music (though I’ll absolutely kick on some Johnny Cash). I also understand that source matching definitely helps, so I have a pretty wide range of amps from the Jot2, BH Crack w/ Speedball, RebelAmp, iFi Diablo, HPA V200, and a couple more. For DACs, I only have a Modius and an Ares II, but am thinking of upgrading at some point (not sure whether to do a small jump with the MHDT Orchid or Pagoda, a slightly bigger one with an Audio-Mirror Tubadour, Holo Spring, Chord DAC64, or a Doge 7, or maybe even spring for a dCS Delius or Debussy). But who knows, I might just stick with what I have for now regarding sources unless something drastic changes down the road.
Hopefully this isn’t information overload and is mostly coherent since I’m unable to sleep and decided to make this post when I have only 4 hours left before I have to wake up to go to work, haha.
That hifiman sound of their high-end lineup is hard to beat imo. I use my HE1K stealth with spring 2 and burson 3xp mostly and love them. What no one ever talks about is how good they are on tubes as well. So if you end up going for the Sus I definitely recommend a high output OTC amp so you get the most holographic/3d effect that the sus is known for.
Happy hunting!
You might consider holding off on Susvara and the LCD-5, and instead look into upgrading your source gear first. Both of those headphones, Susvara in particular, are extremely picky when it comes to the chain driving them, most notably amplification, LCD-5 somewhat less but still finicky. I fear you’d get one of those headphones and be disappointed in them when in reality it was the source behind them.
It appears you are actually pretty happy with the assortment of headphones you have, or had, currently so I’d take a look at upgrading amplification and DAC first. To be honest, the gear you have is great for starting out and getting an understanding of what better gear can do vs. direct PC motherboard or other dongle type DAC/Amps but, you would be limiting yourself moving forward. Even the HE1000v2 that you love so much will scale up with better DAC and amplification that HP (specifically calling it out because I owned and loved myself and am very aware of what it can do) is capable of so much more in all technical aspects, resolution, stage/separation, timbre etc. but it needs to be fed a signal that presents those qualities.
Summary
IMO make some upgrades to your source gear first, listen with and enjoy your current selection of HPs, get a better understanding of what qualities of each you prefer, and how your changes impacted those (good or bad), and go from there. You may (will probably, its the nature of the hobby) need to rinse and repeat several times with different combos of gear until you learn what you like and what sounds best together.
It’s hard to suggest to you what to do first. Typically I would suggest amplification and then a DAC but the modius though probably the best less than $200 DAC out there, is pretty limited when you want to pair it with headphones your thinking about, but the amps you’ve listed are also limited in the same regard, so you’re really looking at amp & DAC upgrade together, or one followed closely by the other in a short period of time- to reap any real benefit.
You’re probably looking at something like a DAC in the $1.5-2K range (used/pre-owned) and another same 1.5-2K (used/pre-owned) for an amplifier, to get to a level of technicalities that will allow you to begin to really hear what those headphones are capable of. Even more for when you decide to build a setup that can support a Susvara.
So really in this case, imo I think sticking with the he1000v2 or moving to the hekse or susvara is the most reasonable imo. The susvara beat out the heks pretty easily, by a large margin, HOWEVER, it will take a lot of investment to get there. The susvara is really an expensive headphone to maximize, and if you aren’t willing to really commit to it, I’d suggest keeping your hekv2 or upgrading to the hekse, and then really bolstering your source gear. You could improve upon your chain quite a bit and squeeze a fair bit more out of your hekv2, even moreso for the hekse. Would all depend on what direction you’d want to lean it, and how much you’d be willing to invest into it
My question would be what do you really like about the hek? What makes you want to go back with it? And also what aspects you’ve liked about other headphones you’ve tried? And things you kinda know what you want to avoid? All the headphones you listed are pretty different from a hek imo, sans susvara and potentially shang jr. Also if you liked the clear mg, why not consider a utopia? Pretty good direct upgrade and plays in the same league as what you’re looking at (og are pretty cheap used too, you just want a really focused chain for them)
The stax 007 is quite different from the signature and presentation of the lambda series (at least the modern L imo), and imo if you like the brighter more forward and ethereal view of the lambda you might actually want to consider the 009 or x9000 (from what I’ve heard about it), over the 007. The 007 in my mind is an outlier compared to a lot of other stax in sound, and I have seen people love the lambda series and dislike the 007 and vice versa, I think the 009 makes more sense if you’re looking for something similar there. I’ve not heard the voce or caldera so I can’t comment there. The shangri la jr actually could be worth considering, imo sort of a similar yet different headphone to the susvara but actually a bit less source demanding, different presentation and focus as well. The LCD R is a pretty weird one lol, I’d just say if you do consider it, see if you can get an amp that will drive it that isn’t the one that comes from schiit, big improvement. The abyss stuff could be interesting, although tbh I’d rather just look for a used 1266 instead of a tc if you go that route, imo a lot more there than the diana series. Expanse was fine but boring for the price for me, but again all depends on what you’re looking for
I’d really suggest if you end up going for the route of a few (or one) higher end headphone, especially something like the susvara or similar level, you really sell off some spare amps and consolidate into a decently higher end single chain to focus the headphone. I do think for the headphones you’re looking at, you’ll really want to bolster your chain a fair bit to really take advantage of what they can offer. For what to consider, that would come down to budget and also what you end up going for (and what you might want to consider in the future)
I’d just say that getting a good tube amp for the susvara is going to be very expensive, you can get away with cheaper stuff with the hek, but finding a tube amp that has both the quantity and quality of power for the susvara is an expensive endeavor. Then again, anything amp wise for the susvara is an expensive endeavor lol.
Agreed
Also would agree
I think that’s a reasonable suggestion, although it honestly already sounds like they know what they like and want out of their current chains lol
I mean I know the Ares II is pretty basic and none of my amps are > $1000, but I’m definitely far from motherboard audio by a longshot, lmao. I’d definitely say that the iFi Diablo and Bottlehead Crack w/ Speedball are already far past entry-level and are already at the point of experimenting with coloration and finding what I like. Obviously they might not be as amazing as the SPL Phonitor XE (something I’m thinking of upgrading to) or the Chord Hugo TT2, or the Chord Dave for that matter, but I can’t really see them as limiting me all that much other than the fact that they might not pair as well as other amps since their coloration might not mesh well with the headphones. Idk, maybe I’m thinking too much like a cheapskate, but I do plan to upgrade at some point. For the amp, the main ones I’m looking at are the aforementioned Phonitor XE or 2, as well as the iFi Pro iDSD, Woo Audio WA22, XI Audio Broadway, Feliks Euforia (might not be as much of an upgrade over the Crack), or maybe even splurge a bit with a McIntosh MHA200. Not really sure what to do re: a DAC upgrade other than what I already listed as my potential options, I just don’t feel like it’s as weak a link in my chain as you alluded to it as being with comparing it to motherboard audio, haha. I mean I know it’s basically baby’s first R2R, but it feels like my potential upgrades like the MHDT Pagoda/Orchid will just end up as sidegrades instead. I don’t really wanna go as far as a dCS DAC just to hear a noticeable difference, but if it really helps that much I’ll probably end up upgrading soon anyways. Especially since I have a problem with buying stuff, It’s why I have over 30 headphones lol.
For the HEK, I honestly just found it to be the most well-rounded and damn good at everything. I ended up trading it for a pair of Stellias because, although they were my favorite, I wanted to find better and test out new flavors. That, and although the HEK is amazing at pretty much everything, it wasn’t really a master of anything. At least with my HD 800S, I get a soundstage that defies all expectations, my Eikons are unbeatable when it comes to mids and lower mids, and my Stax Lambda was able to go absolutely insane in the bass (even more bass than my Argon Mk3, but maybe not as much as my FATfreq Maestro Mini). I do want to go back to it since, even though I like having multiple headphones that excell in one or two areas, that absolutely amazing all-rounder, yet master of none sound was still just phenomenal. But at the same time, rather than just buying it again, I definitely still want to go up and so I was thinking about the Susvara. Main reason I haven’t set that in stone is because I’ve heard that the HEK is basically 94% of the Susvara, so I was wondering if maybe diverting from that path might be better. I also just really like the Hifiman house sound since I love my HE6se v2.
I can’t really think of anything off the top of my head that I’d want to avoid other than issues with comfort that I’ve dealt with from Grado, Audeze, and a few others. I’ve never really had to deal with horrible sibilance from any of my headphones or IEMs, and even though I definitely lean more towards warmer sound, I am perfectly fine with a balanced, neutral sound signature. Though I do kind of want to avoid the Fostex/Denon/E-MU headphones since, after trying the TH-X00 PH, AH-D7200, and Teaks, I can safely say there’s nothing all too interesting about them and their pads suck, lol. Also, although I have the LCD-5 as a potential upgrade, I want to reiterate that, of all the Audeze headphones I’ve owned (except MX4 since it hasn’t arrived yet), I’ve not really been blown away and none of their lineup has had me wishing for more. I’ve had their EL-8 Ti, iSINE LX, LCD-2C, LCD-2, LCD-3, and LCD-X so far and the LCD-3 (prefazor) was probably the only one that sounded different enough from the other LCD series pairs (and the EL-8 Ti was just a mess due to the sealing causing issues and I honestly can’t even remember the iSINE LX). So far, from my Audeze experience, I feel like I could just use the LCD-2C, their cheapest LCD series headphone, and be just as happy as I was with the X or 3. Maybe the MX4 will change that, and maybe the 5 could change that, so that’s why I included the 5 as part of my potential upgrades (since I also really want to see myself enjoying Audeze, but right now I feel like Audeze to me is how many people talk about DCA/Mr Speakers).
Well, main reason is because I have the Stellia and it just doesn’t really do it for me, so I’m not super excited to spend $3k or so on another Focal headphone with the same beryllium driver just because it’s open back. Maybe it’s because I’m using Elegia pads with my Stellia (never had the OG pads sadly), so maybe with a Dekoni replacement or their $280 replacement pads they’ll shine a lot more. But yeah, for now I’m stuck using Elegia pads and they just don’t sound like they’re worth more than the Clear MG that I actually find superior sounding.
My Stax Lambdas were the 1980s version with the Stax SRD-7SB adapter instead of an electrostatic amp. The reason I chose the 007a is because I’ve heard of them as being the bass heaviest of the lineup and I wanted to hear how they sound. I’d probably end up getting a 009 or something else later on anyways just because I’m an idiot with my money and want to try everything I can, but for now I just wanted to hear something from Stax with as much bass as my Lambdas got.
And this here is where I’m most stumped, haha. Too many variables that I can’t control (you’d think I could, but I literally have an addiction to buying stuff and I’m horrendously indecisive.
I think if your goal is a great all rounder, and you already know you really like the hifiman sound, going for another hifiman is likely the play lol. It seems you’ve really tried out quite a bit, and if the hekv2 really has most of what you want, and you’re just looking for more, bolstering source and/or going for a hekse or susvara is the play imo
So, the hek and susvara are closer than they should be for the price on a more entry level hifi chain. But they really start to pull apart in performance once you get into the higher end side of things for the susvara. The susvara is expensive, prepare to spend at least 3x the cost of the headphones on the amp and dac you’d really want to drive them to get what they truly have to offer. You can put together a chain for them cheaper than that, but you’re still leaving a decent bit on the table with the options that lie in the range. Granted, it will still be an improvement over the hek, but you’d have to get a pretty good deal on a used susvara to make that a worthwhile endeavor at that point. Which is why I’d commonly suggest someone who isn’t really willing to drop that kind of cash overall for a susvara chain to just stick with the hekv2 or se, and then upgrade their current chain where they can to squeeze more out of that headphone
Personally if I were putting together a good chain to get most out of let’s say the hekse, I’d be looking at something like the violectric v550 with a crane song solaris quantum, gsx mini with a holo spring 3 kte, moving up something like a pass hpa-1 with a lampi amber 4 or cayin ha300 with a rockna wavelight, or others, all depends. I wouldn’t likely go over that though for a HEK, at that point you might as well consider the susvara for anything next
Gotcha
Gotcha. Personally to me, I think the audeze cans to get are the lcd 2 prefazor and lcd 3 prefazor, as you said they have that special something that the newer ones really don’t, but then again still sounds like that’s not really what you’re looking for. If you do end up liking the sound of the MX4, that could be an indicator to try the lcd 5, but who knows. If most of what you’ve tried isn’t all that interesting to you, probably not worth trying the 5 lol (even though it is in a different direction, personally can’t say much since I’ve not heard it)
So I personally am not a fan of the stellia, the og utopia is a very different sounding headphone in comparison to me, especially on a really nice chain. I don’t really know what they did to the stellia, but imo I didn’t like it much either. I think the utopia is much closer to the sound of the clear than it is the stellia. I’ve only heard the og clear and og utopia though, don’t have experience with the MG. Used, og utopia were going for around 2k ish, which is really good for the sound they offer, but be prepared to invest in some pretty specialized chains for them to sound their best
Think something like a lampizator amber 4/baltic 4 or mojo mystique x → lta mz3 as a really nice pairing (you could go cheaper on the dac if needed) or perhaps similar dacs with an eddie current studio b. A dna stratus with a rockna wavelight or aqua la voce s3 is also great for it
Going lower, something like a pass hpa-1 with an exogal comet plus or la voce s3, or bryston bha-1 with a crane song solaris quantum respectively is pretty nice too. Same with a quicksilver headphone amp or lta mz2 with a chord qutest or potentially mhdt might be worth a look (although honestly I’d suggest going higher on the dac with those 2 amps)
Could be, the focal stock pads for each headphone are pretty important imo, only really liked the stock pads on each headphone. But I still don’t personally like the stellia with stock pads anyways lol, and I don’t know if stock pads would really change it into a headphone you suddenly love lol
Ahhhhhh ok, that makes sense then. Used to people mentioning the more modern lambda like the 300 and 700. Not too experienced with vintage stax myself, but I can see how the 007 is more reminiscent of the older stax that I’ve briefly tried. They are the bass heaviest for sure. Make sure you get something like a kgsshv or carbon for them to really get the best experience, they’re likely the most power demanding stax, and imo tend to fall short on a lot of other amps that don’t really have that swing like the kgsshv. For the 009, I think there’s more versatility in amp pairing, and I don’t like it as much as the 007 with the kgsshv designs (but they can still sound nice. For a 009, I’d be more targeting something like a lta z10e, cavalli liquid lighting 2, headamp blue hawaii se, etc)
There really are a ton of options lol, all down to how much you’re willing to spend, and what you’re looking for. It really seems like you have a pretty good grasp on what you like and what you’re looking for headphone wise, now in my mind it really comes down to figuring out how far you want to go, and putting together a solid chain for what you’re trying to focus. Also, coming from someone who’s also had way too many headphones and associated equipment at one point (perhaps I still do to some extent), from my experience it was really overall satisfying and worthwhile to trim down and consolidate what I had into a few really really good chains, totally worthwhile to do that imo.
After all this great advice that Mon and Delta have thrown out there. You can’t go wrong with their suggestions. Hear me out on this one though, how about a meze Empyrean or elite? They will sound great on your current chain and will scale pretty well as you decide to pull the trigger on higher end gear. I love my empy as much as my HE1K as in I could be happy with just those 2 cans and a few iems. Shhhh don’t tell my ZMF that I said that lol.
Oh yeah, I actually totally forgot those are TOTL since I’m used to Meze’s stuff being closer to the ZMF Verité in terms of sonic capabilities. Not sure if I’ll go for those though unless there’s an absolutely amazing deal for them on the used markets, but I’ll try to not forget about them, haha.
I hope this is true since it’s getting out of hand for me lol. I’ll definitely take everything you’ve said into account, especially re: the pairings and upgrade paths I have to choose from. It definitely helps narrow down what I need to do since, although I don’t feel like my sources are inadequate, I was definitely planning to upgrade at some point soon. Thanks again, I’ll make sure to go through all the options you’ve provided and keep in mind everything you and everyone else has said.
The Empys being TOTL in anything but price and build will depend on who you ask. They’ve got stage, but generally are a step or two below the other TOTL cans in most technical abilities. They do make up for that with a very enjoyable and forgiving sound though. They will run on just about anything, aren’t picky, and don’t care about recording quality.
Yeah, I don’t really see the Empyreans as something that could beat the HEK, but the Elites might be able to… I’d have to find a good deal though since I’m definitely thinking Susvara is my best option other than maybe grabbing a SR-007a.
