TOPPING D90SE Fully Balanced DAC

[LeDechaine]

Coming soon: A comparison of the D90SE, Bifrost 2, and Ares 2 by him.

Denafrips Ares 2 DAC Review - The Most Important Component I Have Ever Heard

[MadGman]

@ValentineLuke

Amir favors Topping for whatever reason

$$$ is more than enough for a reason.
If you want more info, it can be found on this site and many others by searching.

[toruc_macta]

@mochimashu

I meant subjective impressions.

Dude. Quit it. You already got your fight with @Resolution on What did you buy today. No need to start it here again.

@DDT

But Ze’os said, “All DACs are the same,”

And he was wrong
Even at it’s most basic. If we’re not talking about things like microdynamics and soundstaging and tone and stuff. The way Zeos sees a dac as ‘just’ goign from digital to analog. There’s a huge variety of ways on how to achieve that conversion. And even two dacs using the same ‘way’, the quality of the components differ.

[mochimashu]

Wasn’t a fight, nor am I starting another one. You want to know about its imaging, I want to know about its dynamics. No need to be patronising. And please keep your replies on topic, or you can PM me if you have an issue with me.

[Kron]

@toruc_macta

Dude. Quit it. You already got your fight with @Resolution on What did you buy today. No need to start it here again.

Think what you want about what happened in that thread, but personal impressions are actually being asked for here.

My point in that thread was that I wanted to know how he found the dac in comparison to the BF2 in terms of things like detail retrieval, macro and micro dynamics, timbre etc.

[toruc_macta]

@Kron

Think what you want about what happened in that thread, but personal impressions are actually being asked for here.

It’s just the way he does it. He’s been asking the same question again and again. He’s been given the answer twice now and when he does he feels the need to start his “measurements don’t tell you anything argument”. Measurements don’t tell you everything. Yes. Measurements don’t tell you anything? If you believe so, sure. But there’s no need to be condescending towards people who believe they do tell you something. That is my problem. The need to force his agenda because he doesn’t agree with an answer given to him.

.

@Kron

My point in that thread was that I wanted to know how he found the dac in comparison to the BF2 in terms of things like detail retrieval, macro and micro dynamics, timbre etc.

Also very curious! Can’t wait for :

@LeDechaine

Coming soon: A comparison of the D90SE, Bifrost 2, and Ares 2 by him.

[Kron]

@toruc_macta

It’s just the way he does it. He’s been asking the same question again and again. He’s been given the answer twice now and when he does he feels the need to start his “measurements don’t tell you anything argument”. Measurements don’t tell you everything. Yes. Measurements don’t tell you anything? If you believe so, sure. But there’s no need to be condescending towards people who believe they do tell you something. That is my problem. The need to force his agenda because he doesn’t agree with an answer given to him.

Whilst I get that, the question was more around what the dynamic range actually meant in real world terms rather than coming from a measurement that is vague at best IMO.

[MadGman]

Better Specs:

Flagship ES9038Pro DAC Chip.
Hi-Res Audio & Hi-Res Audio Wireless Certified.
Flagship-Grade Performance With Ultra-Low Distortion.
2nd Generation 16-Core XMOS XU216 USB Signal Receiver.
PCM Decoding up to 32-Bit/768kHz.
Native DSD512 Decoding.
IIS Input Supports Native DSD1024 Support.
MQA Decoding Support across USB, Coaxial, Optical, and AES Inputs.
High-Resolution Bluetooth V5.0 Connectivity With LDAC Transmission Codec.
RCA & XLR Output Support.
Ultra-Low Noise Pre-Amp Function.
Fully Operational Remote Control.

Output Parameters(RCA):-
THD+N(A-Weighted): <0.00007%@1kHz.
THD+N(No-Weight): <0.0008%@20Hz-20kHz.
SNR: 127dB.
Dynamic Range: 127dB.
Frequency Response: 20Hz-40kHz(+/-0.3dB).
Output Level: 2.1Vrms@0dBFS(4V Mode), 2.6Vrms@0dBFS(5V Mode).
Noise: <1.3uVrms.
Crosstalk: -124dB@1kHz.
Channel Balance: 0.3dB.
Output Impedance: 100 ohms.

Ouptut Parameters(XLR):-
THD+N(A-Weighted): <0.00005%@1kHz.
THD+N(No-Weight): <0.0003%@20Hz-20kHz.
SNR: 134dB.
Dynamic Range: 134dB.
Frequency Response: 20Hz-40kHz(+/-0.3dB).
Output Level: 4.2Vrms@0dBFS(4V Mode), 5.2Vrms@0dBFS(5V Mode).
Noise: <1.1uVrms.
Crosstalk: -139dB@1kHz.
Channel Balance: 0.3dB.
Output Impedance: 100 ohms.

[toruc_macta]

@Kron

Whilst I get that, the question was more around what the dynamic range actually meant in real world terms rather than coming from a measurement that is vague at best IMO.

I find micro or macro dynamics pretty hard to put into words. Like… Good? Great? What does good or great even mean
Hence why I’m always looking forward to comparison video’s . If X is better than Y and Y is better than Z then X is definitely beter than Z.

[Kron]

Yeah, they’re definitely something that you need to get used to looking out for, they’re one of those audio gear things that you need to learn to be able to describe properly I think at least.

It’s something that I don’t think I know how to describe yet personally, I’m just starting to get better at describing the basics

[Flaculence]

Want to hear what a sabre DAC sounds like but dont want to buy another yamaha AVR. Apple music supports up to 192/24, if the DACs purpose was to play apple hires lossless would the D90se be overkill ? Should i spend on other components of the system?

[toruc_macta]

Depends on the other components in the system. Are you using apple earbuds and a $10 amp? Then yes. Spend it somewhere else first

What’s the system you plan on placing this in?

[MadGman]

@Flaculence

if the DACs purpose was to play apple hires lossless would the D90se be overkill ?

Probably the last person who to ask something like that.
If it’s worth doing, it worth overdoing - is what i like.

I was thinking about this and few other Toppings as secondary setups DAC but it ended up… it being made in China and crappy remote. So RME it was in the end battle for me. German, better remote + the endless settings and tuning i like.

[Flaculence]

Due to the setup problem with apple. For now was thinking my IPAD to camera dongle to DAC set of fancy headphones speakers and sub. Throw a new macbook in later.

[mochimashu]

You told me to drop it to not start a “fight”, yet you’re here again commenting on my behaviour under a thread about Topping D90SE. You just like to argue don’t you?

@toruc_macta

He’s been asking the same question again and again. He’s been given the answer twice now

I asked how good the dynamic range is, audibly, presumably compared to Bifrost 2. I don’t think I’ve got my answer.

@toruc_macta

when he does he feels the need to start his “measurements don’t tell you anything argument”.

You misread. I never said measurements mean nothing. I said I don’t agree measurements equate to sound quality. Measurements tell you how they measure, for example, what the noise and distortion are.

@toruc_macta

It’s just the way he does it.

@toruc_macta

But there’s no need to be condescending towards people who believe they do tell you something. That is my problem.

If you have a problem with me, resort to PM, or are we back to name calling, since, according to you, I’m a Schiit fan boy?

@toruc_macta

The need to force his agenda because he doesn’t agree with an answer given to him.

You also misread. I agree with the answer of how good the dynamic range is on paper, how can I disagree with a machine? I asked how it subjectively sounds which I was never given an answer (and how the hell do I disagree with that?). It was also mentioned in his subjective impression that D90SE has better soundstage, you ever see me disagree with that? Impressions are impressions. I never saw any mentioning of how good or bad the macro and micro dynamics are, as an audible impression, and that is my question.

And to clarify, if I have an agenda, it has always been “measurements don’t tell you everything” and it is intended to address to the claim that “measurement tells you everything”. Is having a consistent view an agenda? Not long ago you disagreed with me stating that people can’t hear the differences between DACs anyway, which I realise you don’t even personally believe in. Do you have a personal agenda against me and just say stuff like this for the sake of argument?

@toruc_macta

I find micro or macro dynamics pretty hard to put into words. Like… Good? Great? What does good or great even mean
Hence why I’m always looking forward to comparison video’s . If X is better than Y and Y is better than Z then X is definitely beter than Z.

You said it yourself. At least an answer can be better than Bifrost 2? Is the micro dynamics as good as macro dynamics? There’s plenty to talk about. This is an audio forum, people discuss these all the time. If I want to know how good it is on paper I know where to find my answer.

[toruc_macta]

‘Fancy’
I mean sure then!
Apple Music, over ipad, iphone, itunes on windows or on Mac will output anything from 16/44.1 to 24/192.
The D90SE will have no problem decoding that.

[Kron]

What’re you currently using as your setup?

[Flaculence]

For apple music best i got is appletv 4k to AVR. So 24/4, think i could go apple device to dongle to external dac to CDin AVR pure direct button which should get me 192/24.

But i really want a say $300-600 headphone ? My first set of hifi headphones. Not only for the hires but for ATMOS binural.

[Kron]

Might be worth putting up a “spec me” sort of thread for that, means we can ask you questions to get more ideas of your preferences etc

[Flaculence]

Guess binural “spatial” audio go together with soundstage and imaging. Will be interesting to see if atmos music takes off. Through an AVR with height speakers i dig it.