this isn’t an issue with the game nor the headphones so much as the experience with the person which simply takes time… more specifically is that we are more used to a very small soundstage to begin with coming from gaming headsets which usually have extremely little staging so that level of narrow intimate staging is a bit more comfortable on something like a sennheiser since its more familiar and we are a bit more experienced with that kind of sound presentation.
I personally wouldn’t take the 560s over a 990 but it would depend on the game really… beyers are naturally built tougher so they can potentially outlast the sennheisers but the capabilities of the 990 exceed that of a 560s… however, in games where large soundstage really isn’t particularly necessary… regular cod, overwatch, csgo, etc this really doesn’t matter and 560s works just fine and may be found a bit more comfortable as mentioned due to its familiarity and intimate sound presentation… its due to this that quite a few gamers who frequent the more smaller map style fps games also love the Focals as Focals have exceptional imaging but again a much more intimate presentation to them… while the soundstage is good on them its not as good as the beyers so to speak. Soundstages issues rears up if your playing very large games… hunt showdown, apex in some games, fortnite in some cases, battlefield, arma, planetside, etc those games where the player can be really far away the soundstage can give you just a pure edge on them especially if dealing with someone fireing sniper rounds or something. However, being able to place at a certain distance comes strictly from a players skill… every headphone will distance differently it just takes time from the player to really adapt to this… could even take potentially months. Due to this needing for adapting is another reason I do tell players who come to me for advice to forget about large soundstage headphones if they plan to attend the big league competitives… because by the time your used to large soundstage cans like a beyer your not that used to the junky small soundstage crap you have to use during tournaments which is a big detriment.
nonetheless, I am glad to hear you found that the 560s work for you and that you enjoy both headphones… thanks for swinging by and dropping your thoughts on it
Would you say the elex would be a better fit for me if I prefer the smaller soundstage, but want more comfort and better sound for music? Would you say the focals have as good or better imaging to the 560s? I would love to try them but they are just so expensive and there is no place to go try them out.
Absolutely but it is quite in your face more aggression yet has a good size stage…
Depends on the focal… if elear its debatable… elex yes it out performs 560s… sounds alot better too imo. The level of clarity and detail on the elex is nuts. Very good headphones and imo of someone likes the earlier sennheiser like 58x, 560s, etc they will more than likely really enjoy focal
Buying DT880 600ohm with Sweetwater in the USA for 200$ today.
AMP options is the struggle: I watched this guys video about various AMPs with the DT 880 600 and he said the Heresy wasn’t as good as the Liquid Spark which I can’t get in Canada. I can get a Beyer A20 for about 350$ CAD but it’s a lot of money and I doubt it’s worth it. I guess that’s the question, for just gaming would I really hear the difference? Warzone only use case.
Edit: The Double headphone output is neat but mostly useless
I suppose if you want them new, sure… though I normally recommend buying used especially for beyers since they hold up quite well… seeing how you can get a mint 600 ohm beyer for like $100-$125.
those that state one amp isn’t as good as the other sound wise is speaking purely from a subjective viewpoint… theres little wrong with heresy… its that spark synergizes a bit better with beyers since the liquid spark adds warmth and treble roll off making it fill in a few gaps in the signature. Either amp will drive them just fine and entry level amps sound differences are fairly marginal while noticeable… its not by much.
skip this… I would sooner tell you grab an asgard before saying to spend that kind of money an amp as the asgard is far superior
I get this question a lot actually so I do need to elaborate for the future people reading… YES you will absolutely hear a difference in your games fps included. However, fps games have their own sound engine limitations as they love to cut corners every which way… will these sound additions help in competitive placements? most likely no, as unless its helping with imaging and spatial recreation maybe some in the upper mids or treble then its not really helping you with anything… it just makes the sound better and clearer.
The dt 880 over there is a very strong headphone… its weakest spot is in its bass which is very easily solved through warm amps such as the liquid spark or just some simple eq which you can bump through peace apo which is a free software on the pc… you don’t need the bass bump in fps but if your listening to music and wanted that extra bit of bump to the bass its an option… go with what you can afford and that is entry level…
Magni and heresy are similar and offer a very good sound though its not as warm… its a bit more colored and natural
JDS atom is the super neutral clean amp next to the Topping amps though topping tends to lean a bit clinical
Spark this is the warm amp of the entry levels. its worth the money and generally you can find them like the others above used market at round $70.
IFI Zen this is ONLY a viable option if your beyer 600 ohm is balanced… as you can then use this units balanced port which will drive them. This is the other warm option and a great budget choice as its both an amp and a dac with a bass button and the warm characteristics similar to the spark. However, only good if the 600 ohm beyer has been modified with a balanced cable.
soundblaster g6: this is probably the ultimate gamer budget option right now… capable of driving 600 ohm beyers and sounds good. Its not as good on sound quality but if your explicitly just a gamer and don’t much care for audiophile levels of sound this is an amazing option. 7.1 for those who appreciate it, scout mode which is a preset for footsteps on the eq board, small so takes little desk space making it handy for those of us on laptops and some console setups, compatible with the new gen consoles. It’s main draw back is that its not the best at sound quality like the entry level amps… it is however a fairly good dac in its own right and can be turned into a dedicated dac paired to a stronger amp later down the road if one wanted to jump down the rabbit hole of audiophile
It’s funny you mention that, I think there’s literally been like three different listings for an 880 600ohm over in the buy/sell thread during the past two weeks, e.g.:
I usually buy used due to this… people in this hobby do tend to take very good care of their headphones especially in the higher price brackets… and others myself included do place headphones like that here for sale… hell I just sold my mint 1990(it had a slight defect in the left cup where the swivel made a pop sound… only when you were messing with it though…) for $390. You can even snag liquid platinum at around $400 which is an amazing amp thats usually over $600.
there are others if you prefer used… and there are some on here who do live in canada so may be worth asking around. others are places like head-fi, reddits avexchange thread, and you can use hifishark as well to scour multiple websites for a good deal
sounds about right as usaudiomart is a thing over here instead. I wouldn’t say that its worth while going with an A20 though still… thats quite a lot in all honesty.
I bought a TYGR 300 R last year where I read through the entire TYGR thread and am enjoying it so far.
Now I’m thinking if there’s an upgrade path for it that you can recommend, I had to get the Team TYGR bundle because that’s the only way it’s available and I needed a mic anyway.
If you feel there is no upgrade path that’s OK as well, because my friend’s headset is breaking down and hence was wondering if I should just get another Team TYGR or a different set up that is more budget oriented (with a focus on competitive FPS because that’s what we play more)
Tygr is hard to beat as is bested by its brother dt 990 if one can tolerate that much brightness… outside of that within the $200 range from my experience there is nothing… technically smaller fps will gain more from more intimate soundstages which makes the sennheisers such as 560s and 58x be a little better than tygr
I think I’ll stick to TYGR 300 R for now the games I play are so varied and so far the imaging and soundstage of all the games I play seem to be quite fitting of the headphone.
Different sound signature, analytical as hell, very bright, built a hell of alot sturdier, imaging and separation are superb with the staging being larger than the tygr though not by very much.
Essentially yea… in most cases the 1990 is a large upgrade but it’s so bright and analytical it loses that charm the tygr has since tygr can comfortably fit into more casual uses… tygr is also noticeably lighter but the weakest spot is that the tygr has recessive mids or vocals and tygr isn’t very bright… since these are more emphasized in the 1990 the 1990 can easily outpace the tygr in fps placements.
Not to mention 1990 is the clearer, more detailed headphone naturally…
The focal elex and dt 1990 are the upgrades to those who use the sennheisers in smaller fps and those who use larger soundstage cans or the previous beyers… t1 is also in there as a solid alternative to the 1990
Falenkor, I’m buying that used Liquid Spark which I’m excited about. Thanks for encouraging me to check the used markets.
I started playing Warzone with a guy that uses DT 990 with 600 ohm and swears by them which screwed up my purchasing decision because I was all set to get DT 880 600 ohm. I reread most of the thread above, I understand the 990 will be brighter but between the DT880 and DT990 which would be better for competitive FPS? I’m also starting Valorant.
thats quite a difference between those two headphones lol… 880 is the oddball
better would be fairly subjective considering the games of choice here not having the best in terms of sound engines… if this was tarkov or arma or something it would 100% be the 990 but in this particular case its more of a pick what you enjoy more…
880 is going to be less bassy than the 990 but with more present mids and smoother highs… its semi open meaning it has a slight isolation factor but due to this it doesn’t have the largest of sound stages… still large but not as big as the 990s in that regard… imaging is still spot on and separation is still very strong… the 880s are extremely well regarded in music and gaming communities more so when you upgrade the amp to them or place them on a tube amp as they scale to a ridiculous degree. The 880 is essentially the little brother to the T1 in terms of signature and slightly more towards 1990…
990 on the other hand is a V shape signature… and a very very sharp one at that. The headphone has a huge hit or miss factor in its treble in that the treble is so blatantly hot that any form of the S annunciation can be very unpleasant or even painful. The bass of the V signature also is a bit too much for fps but its not too over the top to be a deal breaker. Soundstage wise its fully open and just as accurate as the tygr(they are the same headphone after all just differently tuned signature wise). Soundstage will be the same as the tygr 300r however, due to the increase in treble and air the 990s can be noted to sound bigger and clearer. The mids are a huge miss here… they are noticeably recessive so not a good choice for those who want mids… that would be more the 880s job.
In signature they both suit the needs of the fps gamer. however, it really depends on the use case… the 880 is going to be able to fit into more areas alot easier than the 990 due to the hot treble… at the same time 880 doesn’t have as large of a soundstage as the tygr… making the tygr technically a better choice than the 880 for the regular gamer as the tygr doesn’t have those bright issues and yet maintains that stage and imaging of the 990. Mind you the 880 is no slouch though either… some people like the slight isolation of a semi open back, and the 880 can be 600 ohms making it capable of growing with a persons setup, 990s are capable of the same as is the T1, if they wanted to really dive into this hobby… at the same time unlike the tygrs which are extremely picky to pad swaps and equalizing… the 880 responds extremely well to any form of pad swap or eq and even adapts to different variations of its sound signature even so much as going more towards a dark sounding headphone… the 990 responds well to same changes but is a bit pickier on the pad swaps… nonetheless the hot treble of the 990 can be resolved through the tygrs foam inserts, pad swaps, and eq
out of the 3 the 990 will be the “best case scenario” for the fps use… this is because it has the brightest treble that makes the fps sounds quite clear… meanwhile 880 and tygr will go head to head and depend more on what the persons needs and uses are
Glad I could help, but don’t forget you still need a dac to hook everything up
The DAC option is there but I’m extremely concerned about audio delay. The Astro A50s I’m using right now has 80ms latency and I definitely notice it. The chipset on my motherboard has really low latency (Asus Tuf X570).
Quick update, i finally went for a DT770 250ohm, and im quite happy,
The soundstage its really good, better than Grado 225i that i have (not that hard to beat but the grados are openback HP). i never experienced a closed HP before, and i expected to be really narrow and in a box but the reality its far from that.
The imaging its just perfect, in games like Quake Champions its just perfect, in tarkov im getting used to it still because the maps are really big so its all about getting to know the details in sounds like how loud gunshots or granades are and know the distance from that sound and get used to it, but you can tell the the changes in sounds, for music i didnt test them yet.
The Isolation its amazing too, thats the main reason i choose the DT770 because i was getting alot of noise from outside that distract me and get me out of focus.
Now, i heard that with pads you can increase the Soundstage, or you can tame the hights, or get less bass. not sure if a pad can do all of that, but you guys have experience with pad swap to which is the best for gaming?? because the cons i have with this HP is that the bass its not that much but it is there, i would like less bass so it will not get congested when alot of action its going, and tame a little bit the highs. And of course the soundstage if its any chance to improve it even more via pads im in 100%.
from what i recollect from forums and youtube, its the Fenestrated sheepskin from Dekoni are really good for taming the highs and get less bass, not sure about the soundstage.
The choice leather or the Alpha pads gives more soundstage but also increase the bass so thats a no.
Not sure about choice suede or what changes could provide.
Thanks @Falenkor for your help, the next buy will be a 1990 or i hope so.
