With such a budget ampless is not really an option here so something such as the 6xx is more htan likely not going to cut it… same with the beyers DT series outside of maybe the 80 ohm 770 but they are bassier… you typically want the beyers at 250 ohm or 600 meaning youd need an ampl/dac to go along with them which most likely will place you outside of budget less you can snag them for around $100.
Beyer and senn are indeed those within that budget that stand out though if its ampless were talking about the ones wed be looking into is the Tygr 300R and 560s which since you mention battlefield the tygr would be the better choice in this regard… if you can manage to snag the dt beyers cheaper though that would be the ideal scenario setup and while tygr is nice in sound quality performance it doesn’t really out do an 880… its just got a larger soundstage and a bit better imaging
pc38x is good for a gaming headset… I would say the 560s over them as outside of regular competitive gaming everything about them is pretty horrid.
Would a dt880 250ohm be fine or should I only rely opt for a 600ohm version? And what would be a good amp/dac for dt880? Schiit seems to be out of stock everywhere in Europe so I can’t get my hands on one of these.
600 ohm is essentially the best version of the headphone but there is nothing wrong with going with the 250 ohm if you cannot find the means of driving the 600… it works fine
depends on how much you care about sound quality. G6 and k5 pro can drive up to the 600 ohm beyer with g6 being slightly better at headroom from my experience but these arent the best at sound quality. If your looking for an amp dac generaly Id say make sure you have around $200 budget. Doesn’t have to be schiit though… JDS, Schiit, Monoprice, Topping, Aune, Geshelli, Lake People, among others all have units that will work fine just with differing sound traits respectively
hmm, I need to take some time out and sit back with a few headphones in fps again so I can really get a better read on the review update. since I am making a rating system I want to make sure its rather accurate… also making sure I have the proper graph measurements without a rig of my own is a bit complicated. Contemplating on whether I should include my personal thoughts on each headphone… would probably help just take more time. Base list is pretty much done just needs touched up on.
From reading and watching reviews of the Magni 3+ and Asgard, Pretty much the general consensus is that the Asgard 3 has better sound stage and imaging. Would this also translate in games assuming that the audio engine in the game was of decent quality?
Ok great! Reason for questions was that if it didn’t matter so much for games, I would have likely gone for a Magni stack but think I may just opt for a Asgard and maybe a modius too.
Hello everyone. I play a mix of games. Warzone and other fps games, chivalry 2, SWTOR. I already have a set of 598Sr and love them. I am treated by the HD 58x though and hear alot of people use them for gaming and say they are awesome for that. So I saw an open box one on eBay and one in auction and got them for $107 plus $11 shipping. They should be here Monday. Now, of course I’m seeing a ton of posts on various web forms and subreddits for people are saying they’re actually not good for gaming because of their narrow sound stage and that the imaging is not that impressive.
So when the 58x gets here I will try to test it against my 598, but I guess the question is those of you who have had experience with the 58x and the 598 what would you consider to be better for gaming and why? Some of the posts I’ve seen are making me have buyers remorse before it’s even gets here but I see others go in the completely opposite directions saying they’re amazing for gaming so I guess I’m just confused.
Hi @Falenkor , I’m looking for a new pair of headphones for games such as CS:GO, Valorant.
I currently own a pair of 6XX and have used a pair of Philips X2HR and other gaming headset such as the sennheiser game zero.
Amp: iFi micro iCAN SE
DAC: Fosi Audio Q4
I like everything I see and read about the 1990s but I’ve never listened to beyers and I’m a bit scared due to the treble peak that everyone mentions and having to spend more money in pads to tone it down.
So I was thinking about the 880 600ohm for now and if I like the sound signature the next step would be the 1990, does that make sense? I think my amp should be able to provide enough to drive them properly. Or would you recommend something different?
Hey there @Xicu, thanks for reaching out and welcome to hifiguides.
Understandable, I do also caution people about beyers and their brighter sound… its wise to audition a headphone with a return policy in this regard if possible.
This does indeed, however the 880 has a few different notable changes. It’s mids are more pronounced, it has slightly more bass than the analytical padded 1990 and less bass than the balanced padded 1990 so somewhere inbetween, it isn’t as peaky as the 1990 yet still bright, and its semi open back meanwhile 1990 is an open back so it won’t sound as large and open as the 1990. The direct cut above the DT 880 600 ohm is my own headphone T1 2nd generation which is what I use, if you find yourself loving the 880 it wouldn’t hurt to find a way to test teh 1990 and if that isn’t a good fit to swing for the, now discontinued, T1 2nd generation(only 2nd gen not the 1st or 3rd as those had different signatures).
I can’t speak on your current setup, I believe it should be fine though since the ican is known to be quite strong… wouldn’t hurt to swing by the 880 600 ohm forum on here and ask others who can verify that for you.
As for synergy with the games your playing though, it would work tremendously well in your favor… the 6xx is a wonderful headphone for sure… but its very small intimate soundstage can be found very lacking in a competitive fps as is the case for most of the sennheisers… the x2hr over there is far too bassy and uncontrolled bleeding into the mids and muddying up fps sound placements… Overall the 880, or rather any of the beyers would be a tremendous step up in overall performance.
If you are truly worried about the brightness, it won’t hurt to test the 880… however, if you find the 880s too bright then you can look for tygr 300r which is phenomenal for a beyer since it doesn’t have those sharp tendencies yet keeps the open sound and laser imaging of the dt 990
Hello, I’m new here. Looking into new headphones. I read through the entire thread and other forums as well and I’m still as clueless as I was in the beginning.
My use case is games (Tackmania, Path of Exile, Diablo 3, but also a few multiplayer FPS games like PUBG, Rainbow 6, Escape from Tarkov and similar), a bit of music here and there, but nothing serious and in addition these days home office and video conferencing, so they should be comfortable over long days. I’d like to try (semi-) open headphones, as I have minor inner ear pressure issues and my current NC Sony 1000XM (even with NC off) are causing me problems after a few hours.
I originally thought about AKG K-712 Pro for their large soundstage, but I keep reading that imaging/localization isn’t the best particularly for FPS. I am by no means a professional player, but do enjoy an online game here and there teaming up with friends. Not sure if the 712 would be good enough, I can’t see issues for other games like TM/PoE. Have the Beyer 880 on my list as well and now, thanks to this thread the TYGR. I don’t want to put too much money into this unless there is a really, really good reason. The 1990 and the T1 fall into that category, they cost more than I’d like to spend unless I have to. As I’m in Europe: 712 (€222), 880 (Edition 600Ohms €155), 1990 (€429) and T1 (2nd gen €749, 3rd gen €999) and the TYGR 300R (€139).
Alternatives: Sennheiser? Maybe 599, but might give up too much of the large soundstage? 600 series costs too much, similar to 1990/T1. Again, unless I really have to.
My gut tells me to go for the TYGR. One thing I have to mention, as I’d like to use these with multiple computers and also a phone, I’d like to connect them directly to a Mackie VLZ4 mixer (which I use to mix audio from computers/phone for conferences, and have a mic/compressor attached). If necessary, I’d add a headphone amp if needed. I’d also consider changing the pads as a tweak.
Is there anything wrong with my thoughts here or does the TYGR really make the most sense in my situation?
Hey there, thanks for chiming in. I would just say take your time and take it in steps, the hobby can be daunting and rather confusing especially with mixed opinions being so frequent.
a bit confused, as you mention semi open headphones but the rest of this post is actually fully open backs.
k7 series does have imaging problems but it still works where it needs to in most case, just not the best case result in gaming is all.
path it may inaccurately place an enemy sound thats more off screen or something, but other than that it should be fine.
tarkov would be the biggest issue here since its the most demanding… outside of that the rest of the games listed work fine on these two. tarkov is just extremely demanding
That’s fine but also remember you can search the used markets to save quite a bit as well.
In order of performance best to worst? T1 =/= 1990, Tygr 300R, DT 880, K712, T1 3rd gen(extremely bassy)
go with 598 or 58x jubilee if possible otherwise skip on this.
while this is fine, phone is a bit of a deal breaker for practically every headphone except -maybe- tygr thats been brought up here… but its a bit of a stretch since its still a 32 ohm headphone. Phones are definitely not that good at driving power and many motherboards struggle as well, so you will most likely need a cheap amp if you go with the tygr. DT 880 over there will absolutely without a doubt demand an amp at 600 ohm. If its just a regular all around use headphone that doesnt need that much in terms of power… your fine with the tygr, however… its not the best on pad swaps just a forewarning as I see you mention that as well… itll work but it can deplete a lot of sound quality… 880 is a hell of a lot better in this regard and more flexible to equalizing and pad swapping but as mentioned… it demands an amplifier… at the same time the two are of a different signature and it will depend on whether you can handle the dt 880s bright treble or not.
Sorry, my bad. What I meant with (semi-) open is either semi-open or open. The preference is certainly fully open, but if there’s a recommendation for semi-open I’d be willing to try that as well.
I guess the best bet for Tarkov would be closed headphones? I’m willing to make that sacrifice, as you say it is a very demanding game and we’re not fully into it yet. Mainly playing with a friend and we might drop it again due to not having enough time to dig really into it. So I guess it’s ok.
Thank you, this is very interesting. Especially the bass heavy 3rd gen T1 at the end.
No worries, as long as I’m home, I can run the phone through the mixer. And when it doesn’t work in other sitatuations, I’ll fall back to one of my wireless headphones or wired IEMs.
Thank you again for your feedback. I think I’ll order the TYGR this week, see if they fit and work for me. If I find any issues, I can return them within 60 days buying from Beyer directly. If that’s the case I’ll likely make the jump to the 1990.
Unless you have a loud home with distractions… absolutely not. Open backs with a full 3d field of sound around your head, large soundstage, and as accurate imaging as possible is pretty much mandatory with that particular game. It’s essentially one of the most demanding fps right now due to just how particular its sound engine is and one of the only fps known to be able to fully utilize a hd800s soundstage or T1.2 pushed to its limits on imaging and staging.
this was an unfortunate ordeal I had to sit with, as a huge fan of the 2nd gen the 3rd gen’s signature, while enjoyable, just was so different in comparison it didn’t sit right. Much bassier, lots of treble removed, stuff of that sort and it doesn’t compete anywhere near the level of the 2nd gen hell I would take a shp9500 over the 3rd gen for fps gaming as while still decent at it’s price tag… theres a hell of a lot better options.
From my experience with the tygr, I know very few people who actually didn’t enjoy the tygr… if anything those who are bigger fans of the mid frequencies are a bit on the fence with that particular headphone, which is understandable since tygr is a 990 clone thats been altered so its V shape signature causes the mids to be dialed back, that plus the fact its not as bright as the 990 so levels of clarity and detail may appear lacking in comparison. It’s definitely not bad… and damn sure not bad at all if you get it at a good price… overall its one of the very few headphones I will give a solid 10/10 due to the cheap price per performance only rivalled by its true variation the 990 but you need an amp for that one.
But I keep wanting a wireless headset for gaming, even though Ive recently got a sundara.
However I keep reading wired->wireless, but it is lost on me since ive also constantly been reading gaming audio is mostly mastered at 16 bits and 44.1/48 khz.
So then excluding the minor latency 2.4 ghz latency offers, what exactly is missing here.
As in lets say u got a Audeze Penrose, GSP 670 or whatever premium priced wireless headphone/set you can buy and placed them against a proper headphone with a proper amp and dac.
Will you hear less with the wireless, as in some details will be missing, shorter lived or why would the wired set give you an upper hand competitively speaking(except latency).
Sort of id want to know if there is something inherently flawed with 2.4 wireless that prevents it from being competitive tier.
I sort of get why wired is better, at the time fail to see something that would give wired competitive advantage.
Like when it comes to clarity and detail in a situation it follows → being in a room and there are 4 enemies at 90 degrees, one walking on wood, one on metal, another on water, one jumping. Would the superior quality of the driver in detail, clarity and separation of a wired headphone make it easier for the user to identify correctly the action of each?
maybe back in the day yeah but of late its more in the 24 bit spectrum which is the standard default things such as windows is set in.
I will be frank that its a lot more than just “minor” in some cases… will get into that in just a sec
So theres a few things to cover on here to explain. Wireless tends to lose a lot of sound quality… a lot of clear clarity type traits you find in wired headphones and can in some cases cause a slight fuzz amongst the frequencies depending on the headphone. At the same time, in order to have an upper hand so to speak you also need the right sound signature traits alongside very little to no latency if possible. Since some headphones can be extremely bad for latency, looking at you mobius, this makes dealing with wireless complicated. Its not that you cannot use wireless you definitely can but as it stands theres more cons to them than pros when it comes to competitive fps. The most you can dial them back to is around… I believe 3-5 ms but in some cases those audible latencies can spike past 20 ms or worse and create audible lag which can screw a lot of things up in some fps where live action timing is everything.
You also have the issue where most, if not practically all of these “gaming headsets” do not go out of there way to create good sound qualities… or they amp up the bass so much that its just outright… bad. They never have a good enough signature in comparison to the headphones that make them ideal as the creators try to appeal to both audiences casual and competitive making it a rather large jumbled mess all the while they cut corners on parts such as drivers, pads, plastic, etc to keep cost low which in the long run just screws with sound quality and clarity as mentioned above.
Theres also the issue on the games themselves having their own demands… for example… I wouldnt ever recommend the penrose or anything for a game like tarkov… these wireless headsets are decent and all but they are pitiful in the case of soundstage or the sound around you and especially pitiful in the case of imaging and separation or rather how accurately that sound is placed and how well a headphone will separate sounds during heated moments.
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The thing is about wired is that
it has no latency issues so this isn’t a concern
you not getting degradation of sound quality and its true to its design
headphones are built with quality in mind while gaming headsets are build with bottom dollar in mind or rather “gamers will buy anything that looks good so heres some bs advertising”
your extremely limited if you choose wireless and at the moment the hardware involved is rather inferior currently
wired headphones tend to be built sturdier and a wireless headphone can have more issues that go wrong that can kill a headphone due to the extra circuitry in some cases like the orbit and mobius where the circuitry on button side of the headphone would constantly just go bad causing the headphone to die
This depends on the headphone but in most cases? absolutely.
However, let me give an example… say we have an open back wireless headphone with the ideal sound signature trait… in this regard you need to make sure if its low latency or not and how much latency it is… if its very low then this wouldn’t be an issue… after this it comes down to the nitty gritty of how is the sound quality… sound quality being screwed up is pretty common with wireless and is something that gets mentioned during reviews as well when it comes down to it… if the sound quality is alright then it comes strictly down to how does the headphone present sound, clarity, definition, separation, imaging, soundstage, are the highs raised, is the bass muddy…
the issue here is that pretty much every single wireless headset or headphone we have available to us right now doesn’t quite fit where we need it to. They consistently miss that margin
Penrose is probably the best case on the market for now for a gamer if you really want wireless… otherwise you will need a low latency blue tooth setup with a headphone modified for wireless or like hifiman deva or something… for example you can convert a beyer into being wireless if your techy enough by modding it to be a 3.5mm jack and using a 3.5mm blue tooth adapter connected to a low latency bluetooth amp/dac unit therefore making wired a moot point technically… but you still lose sound quality.
Since you already own a Sundara, if you were to pick up say a penrose you would absolutely notice a difference and a big one at that… Sundara is a very large soundstage bright headphone with recessive bass tones where the mids and highs are the focus point of the headphone… meanwhile penrose is a bassier, balanced yet darker sounding set of cans… its good for all around use but definitely no where near as good as sundara, maybe just maybe 25% the performance of a Sundara if I am being quite critical of the two. You can still use the wireless penrose… it will perform but it will depend on the game… penrose works fine in smaller fps titles… but anything large and the issues become just flat out glaring.
well thats a sad percentage. I had a razer nari essential, I actually still use today being more comfortable than the sundara(glasses) and its definitely evident that the quality of the sound is day and night. This is why I asked about something like Penrose or GSP 670, which seem to the some of the better ones not your generic $50 wireless gaming headset.
even 20 ms I would not consider being mhmhmm a significant disadvantage.
The only serious disadvantage I see is very limited headphones that are wireless and open back.
But on the matter of soundstage while the Sundara’s is larger, I can to the same extent place the distance of a sound with them shitty Razer Nari’s. +
Surprisingly where the only times I found soundstage of the sundara to be disgustingly useful is close range, within 1-30 meters, where I can place locations precisely based on sound. However on long range gunshots etc, between a mix of sound loudness, imaging and a bit of deduction I never had issues with the Razer Nari.
Also sorry that my posts will be mostly incoherent and I will between topics.
On the
Now here is where I start finding hard to articulate my thoughts. Clarity, detail, definition and separation…could this be well overstimulating for gaming? In music probably a clear downside since you want to hear absolutely everything with as much detail, clarity definition and separation. However in games, I would at least theorize that the overstimulating detail and clarity of some details that would make you fail to process the relevant ones.
and the real sad part for me on wireless is that you are paying as a customer whether you like it or not for the shitty software, simulated 7.1(which is utterly useless) and other commodity features like chatmix and etc.
Personally im thinking of gsp 670 because I keep missing phone calls and would also be nice for the bluetooth to kick in right in my headset.
From a comp perspective I fail to see where I would lose and be salty for using a wireless headset because I failed to hear a sound cue where on wired it wouldve been the easiest thing in the world not to miss.