Quick feedback for my purchse (been a while). I’ve lived with the TYGR for a while now, wasn’t able to play as much as I wanted to, so mostly played Trackmania and PoE, a little Tarkov. I usually listen to music via speakers, but figured why not try it. Can’t complain about them, for the price they’re certainly very good and do a great job. I need to play more Tarkov and plan to play some Battlefield 2042 as soon as time allows. If anything, it might be a tad bit kick-bass heavy and the pads could be a little bit bigger but maybe they’ll soften a little more the more I use it, so they’re a bit more comfortable. Thank you again @Falenkor for recommending these.
I’ve also made another change. Wanted to get rid of the analogue mixer/interface, so I was looking for something new. Motu M2 came to mind and while the TYGR are low impedance and should be easy to drive, I thought a dedicated headphone amp would be nice to have. So ended up with Audient Id4 mkii (high impedance headphone output!) which serves as interface to computer and input for Procaster + DBX 286s and will feed the amp for the headphones. Had JDS Atom on my list and Schiit Magni 3+/Heresy, but can’t find them anywhere in Europe. So I decided to order a Topping L30, which will hopefully arrive soon and complete my TYGR purchase.
Just a note. It’s fine to message here some didnt know if they should. It’s quite alright and keeps this guide at the top to help others as well(hopefully).
Hmm for the most part I am in agreement however for “gaming” as a whole? No… not the hd800s god no… holy hell is that that annoying in casual gaming. Comfort? Yep, soundstage and imaging? Absolutely… casual gaming immersion and bass? Nope.
Zeos is spot on I agree. Comfort is extremely important.
Resolve dead on… soundstage FFS is not the most important thing as YES you can adapt and be good with ANY level of soundstage… as long as you are comfortable and can flexibly use it. Mind you there is better fitting and the more ideal… signature and imaging is needed.
Granted if I say hey guys would you use a bright headphone like hd800s or a beyer for games like doom, elder scrolls, etc… most likely it wouldn’t be the top dog recommendation as theres many other headphones that tend to be more comfortable for listening and less piercing
As for the 38x… if were talking budget gamer where I only have $150 I dont want or cant afford amps yes… 38x is absolutely your best bet with mh751 being there next to it… and yes for ultimate budget? Agreed ksc75 is ridiculously good. However 38x is only there because things like 560s and tygr do not have a mic and are harder to drive… therefore dragging their cost up… In this regard yes… 38x is the one you want if your this heavily limited… this goes for a kids gift too if Christmas is coming up. I’d easily agree with resolve on the 560s as I find it heavily superior to 38x though. Also thanks to resolve for mentioning the weird 3 blob crap some of them have…
Edit: I feel the need to elaborate a bit here since I got a minute to actually type. The 38x is still not that “great”… its good for specifically budget and good for a headset… however heres the issues incase anybody cares
Mic quality is pathetic… regardless of the high praise you hear the muffling even during that video when he uses it… its actually worse than that from my experience with it
it has imaging issues at certain spots and will occasionally just inaccurately place
despite all this crazy praise of BIG SOUNDSTAGE… its really not that large or special… its just above the average… its large for its price and being a headset
its treble is peaky, unrefined, and can be slightly uncomforable at times
bass is probably the weakest point in the headphone…
its primarily ONLY good for competitive fps… I would never really encourage for casual play as there are other options… despite the claims that its fantastic for music I would rather listen to my ksc75 than this piece of junk says something considering ksc is like… $12
Its out of box clamp is ridiculous, takes a lot of stretching, and yet still puts a lot of pressure on the head… if your head is large its going to be a bad time for you
The usual small oval shape speakers are per the norm… an issue for larger ears… if you had issues with a hyperx cloud or takstar or maybe other sennheiser 500 series? that issue is the same here
Pads are thin and shallow… they are not thick and heavily padded which can also cause more discomfort
Despite being a sennheiser… the quality in the mids is pretty lackluster compared to the headphone alternatives
HD 560s is essentially the same as this… except it has practically none of the issues of the pc38x.
The mic has cross talk problems… big time
Multiple cases of wire failure have been reported
multiple cases of the mic failing has been reported
multiple cases of mic mute feature being busted reported
multiple cases of bad speaker alignment for proper placement has been reported
it DOES NOT work on all systems… older consoles struggle to run this like ps4… and older motherboards also struggle due to lack of power
Its honestly quite ugly
The build quality doesn’t inspire confidence as its the usual hard plastic lightweight frame
Not the easiest to try for most people, let alone return due to Drop
I would hands down recommend just about any headphone that has good performance over this… as you most likely will gain more respect and use out of that headphone than this…
Separation is a cluster fuck in larger fps making this dominantly only really good at smaller fps
DESPITE ALL THIS ABOVE… it still SOMEHOW remains the best of the headsets… because in truth… the other alternatives are so unbelievably worse that I cannot even justify their price tags in 95% of cases
The more I have tried using the DT 900 Pro X and 700 the more I come to realize they truely are not at all that good in competitive gaming… like they are fine… they will work but not for that price tag they aren’t I picked back up a ad700x(its a gift for someone later) and compared… and even that out performs this… aaand that costed me $70 compared to these which are $300. Granted these sound very good
Oh wow, there is a lot info here. Huge thanks to OP.
But I am a kind of a noob, got a little bit overwhelmed, so I probably still ask for help.
Anyway, a big gamer, but not super competitive in any way. The only competitive titles I played a lot were Quake (which probably no one here plays, lol), and fighting games, but I don’t think there is any specific requirements for sound for them. Enjoy a little bit of Apex, love Titanfall 2, but calling that game competitive is like calling a drunk bar brawl a boxing match. Maybe will try Halo Infinite in the future.
I guess I just need a “good enough” overall option. Preferably neutral, don’t want anything standing out or missing in a big way.
Currently using HD58x, looking into getting a DAC/AMP stack, either Atom+ or Modi/Magni. What could be a good upgrade within reasonable budget of like 200-300$?
As I say to anybody feel free to ask questions. I am glad to help if I can.
I used to actually. It was fun but I never was serious about it. Quake really was a bit more skill reliant than many
I mean less you want the punches to sound off like a cannon which is a bit funny…
Actually pissed about this game. Fantastic game just ruined
Currently playing that(and I’m back in venues on the side lol game needs work though)
Hmm it depends on what your looking to upgrade actually as this is a tough one. What about this headphone would you like to see improved? Sennheisers are very neutral usually mid forward headphones. The step up from the 58x actually loses soundstage(600 series) and the technical headphone above sennheiser is much higher than this budget which is focal.
Well, the options I was considering were HD560s. Maybe if I stretch the budget a little further try to shoot for Sundara. Heard a lot of good things about Beyerdynamics, but the way people describe the sound makes me think I won’t like them, even if they image very well. And are there any options from AKG? For some reason rarely hear about them in this conversations.
The main thing is: I just want to know if it’s worth for me to explore a little further. Am I missing out on something. But at the same time don’t want to go on neverending search for the “endgame” that will never come, don’t have money or time for that.
i guess you have already tried the DT1990 with the Dekoni Elite Velour Pads? How would u say it impacts performance for competitive gaming (compared to the analytical pads)?
Also i saw your replys on several other threads, that you are a believer in AMPs and DACs having an impact on imaging, soundstage, etc. Im currently running a Zen Can Signature or SMSL SP200 as AMP, and either the SMSL M200 or a GoXLR as DAC. I have to say that i feel like I hear a difference between the 2 AMPs i have, but I dont really trust myself and just think its placebo, but im willing to try other stuff to be sure. Is there any AMP or DAC you would recommend me to try with the DT1990s?
I have one last question: I used to mostly play Overwatch and just used the integrated Dolby Atmos, also in other Games i just accepted the sound as the game delivered it to me. Since i switched to Apex Legends, which has no virtual surround sound integrated and just outputs pure stereo, but can output true 7.1 sound, I tried several different surround sound programms (THX Spatial Audio, Dolby Atmos, DTS:X, Immerse Hive, HeSuvi) and noticed, that it has a huge impact on my abilitiy to locate sounds ingame (and actually was an improvement for me over pure stereo). So I was curious if there is any software you use, to improve your competitive audio (Virtual Surround Sound, EQ, Volume Normalization, etc)?
I own most of the beyers that compliment one another 1990 being of course one of the best of the bunch. I do also have all the pad swaps from Dekoni for them including the Velour. If were comparing ot the analytical pads they keep the stock sound relatively well, it will cause a heavier dampening affect to the sound and push the soundstage back a little creating more depth, at the same time you can expect a small decrease in treble and a slight pick up in the bass.
As someone who has sat with a huge variety of amps and dacs? absolutely, I think anybody who says otherwise is entitled to their opinion but as someone who initially did not believe in this over time that changed my mind as I got to experience the differences… especially in the case of soundstage which changed upon getting my Liquid Platinum that introduced me not only to heavy coloration but a lot of depth and opened up my aeons which turned them into one of my all time favorite headphones leading to the purchase of my now Aeon 2 that remain on my wall
zen can would be alright with the 1990 but I would caution the SMSL there… my experience with THX as well as SMSL like the sp200 is that they are sharper and can add treble… while they are still nice amps in the case of beyer which is already heavily leaning bright this can cause even further sibilance. The IFI there tend to lean warmer with a slight roll in the mid-high treble… so they in my experience favor beyers quite well. Granted that GOXLR isn’t going to be the best case at removing any form of distortion… you can still use it if you wish. I wouldn’t say you really need to change that setup if you don’t feel like spending the money… Personally, I enjoy the ifi for beyers as I like the added bass button and they don’t take a lot of space either… Granted I will say I appreciate the Schiit products for my beyers a lot more… beyers are heavily dampened so something that opens up spatial recreation is very nice to have… while 1990 will respond just fine to 7.1 having something like asgard 3 over there push the space in the sound further helps… otherwise 1990 tends to sound more semi open which ends up being more of a preference thing. I will caution however, 1990 brightness really can be harsh… if you haven’t tried a bright headphone before it can be rather uncomfortable if you can’t tolerate it.
For me personally? No, not usually. I do have Hesuvi, Dolby Atmos, and Peace APO Equalizer on the pc but I don’t use these typically… Several reasons for this. As a competitor and as someone who goes to tourneys(again) I pushed myself to adapt to playing with what I have… I steer away from any form of EQ and 7.1 to get myself used to a smaller stage and a natural sounding headphone instead… in person tournaments do not allow EQ or any form of software… so when I am practicing its back to a closed back. Though if were talking of just kicking back? nah, I normally don’t need that stuff to tell the truth… I have tried it out but the depletion in the sound quality you typically get from the artificial space of sound bothers me personally. 1990 is more than capable of providing any and all requirements of the competitive gaming area… and since I rely more on my T1 2nd gen than I do 1990… the T1 there has similar performance but an even larger stage. If I was going to do anything it would actually be deplete the treble on 1990 for better comfort while playing as 1990 is extremely aggressive on that.
Though on Apex… hmm, I might prefer a hifiman for that game more in particular since theres more verticality involved which is a weak spot on beyers. You can still place vertically but not as good as the airy signatures that hifiman have like the 400se and sundara.
Hmm… lake people is their alternative… other than that… while not as good jds products. Topping, thx, and smsl are all too measurement based and clinical so they annoy the hell out of me in the case of bright signature headphones. Less you can somehow magically score the liquid platinum in that price that would be quite something
Had a few messages over beyers not performing as expected. Please make sure you are properly driving your headphone… motherboards can and normally will introduce a ton of issues which is why amps and dacs are recommended… motherboards are known to introduce more bass, bad imaging, distortions, etc. At the same time older consoles like ps4 are known to have a very weak audio codec which can also cause issues
At the same time your more than welcome to disagree with me. In some cases even other headphones are found to be a bit better. It’s difficult to find the best fit since we all hear differently.
In other case, I only encourage a g6 for gaming brand variety. It is by no means audiophile sound quality and I will never tell you otherwise on that. It is simply a budget option for gamers to get quickly into headphones. There are other units that can be recommended that are as cheap while providing a good sound quality however the typically wont have as much power
as a response to those questioning it… yes… I own all 3. I still believe Hd800S is one bad ass headphone… it truly is the best case in competitive market HOWEVER, it 100% demands a higher end amp and dac to go along with it in order to bring out its best characteristics… anybody who claims you can just grab a hd800s and drive it off some cheap amp unit or like a g6 is full of it… This same factor goes for the T1 which is 600 ohms… it is also one that will vary its signature and traits based on its source… 1990 not as much past RNHP I can’t seem to get much more improvement out of it… so asgard 3 or something will work fine as the potential end game for people wondering… please, do not outright buy an hd800s as not only is this overkill the price that comes with that involving amp and dac can drag that headphone well over 2 grand. If you have the money and want to try it anyway? go for it.
Do keep in mind that the T1 2nd gen’s tonality is extremely similar to the hd800s just without that absolute massive soundstage… the T1 is huge on soundstage but hd800s pretty much has the market as far as being king on soundstage. Hd800S still wins on clarity and the like as it should considering the price differences
I’ve spent the past two days reading this entire thread. It’s full of great information. Thanks for taking the time to throw it all together and respond to all the questions @Falenkor
I am looking to “upgrade” my current setup. For the past few years I’ve been running the 58x’s on a G6. For music, these have been stellar. For casual gaming, they have also been great. I play Tarkov a good bit, and this is where I feel they lack and it leaves me wanting more. I watch a few different streamers play often, and it seems like they are able to pick up player sounds/movement much easier and further away than I can. The 58x’s leave me feeling unsatisfied when playing Tarkov, not that I have anything to compare them to, but it seems like there’s more to be had there.
I’m sort of partial to a brighter sound signature. I enjoy crisp and clear audio. I’m sort of leaning toward snagging some 1990 pros. I know the G6 is adequate to run these as well, however I’m wondering if I’ll benefit from upgrading the dac/amp as well? Something that enhances or compliments the 1990’s sound signature?
Depends on the person, some people can get along fine with tarkov with even the 600 series sennheisers which have less soundstage than the 500 series meanwhile others struggle… theres also a lot of practice and patience with tarkov in particular… You can definitely step it up and see if it helps you though.
if youve never tried an actual bright headphone I would definitely make sure theres return policies or some way to audition a bright headphone first hand before jumping to say a 1990… since 1990 can be uncomfortably bright for a lot of people.
G6 is good for gamer options… not sound quality by any means so yes there is upgrades. Earmen Donald dac for example is good for imaging just to list a quick cheaper name however its more so the amp that provides a larger change. Going to an entry level such as the Atom stack / Magni stack or stepping it up to either a Geshelli or if available at all… the schiit stack asgard 3 + modius will help in many cases… more so towards something like asgard over there since that also adds more spatial recreation and is good on the imaging for the stack… geshelli and magni though are more neutral and clean to my ear.
its up to you, in the end as long as you can afford it and are happy with your setup should work out just fine. 1990 is fine as long as your aware its not the “biggest” in terms of its soundstage there is definitely better but the capabilities of such a headphone are quite something… however, 1990 isn’t particularly necessary… its just very good in tarkov… you can still get away just fine with something cheaper from beyer like tygr 300r or DT 880 which have less soundstage(more so in the 880) but can place far and extremely accurate just fine. The only other contender I would say would be k702 but it does have some imaging inaccuracies… I dont particularly recommend Hifiman for tarkov
I guess after reading this entire thread the past few days, my takeaway was, if someone isn’t sensitive to a bright sound signature the 1990s were sort of the high end competitive recommendation if your playing games like Tarkov that are extremely demanding. Assuming it works with ones budget also.
My other takeaway was going beyond that price point into say the HD800s and their stellar soundstage, requires a larger investment into a higher end dac/amp, and in the end you really aren’t gaining a substantial enough competitive edge to justify the significant cost increase, unless you just have money you can throw around no questions asked.
I know you personally run the T1.2. There is a set for sale locally for $400. They look to be in pretty good condition, other than the headband has some flaking.
I have around 1000 hours in tarkov. Have played a number of wipes since 2018. I don’t mind spending the money on say something like the 1990s and the Asgard 3. I know the G6 is fairly good just as a DAC, so could run the Asgard through it, unless you think running it with the modius is superior and would generate a better sound overall.
I have played around with all the settings on my G6. Not really of fan of any of it honestly. I have found that I enjoy a personalized EQ, where I have the 2K, 4K, and 8K frequencies boosted a few db. It seems much “cleaner and crisper” to me. Especially in game.
For the most part, yeah. They are more of the end game brand variety in most cases unless you need something like more soundstage or prefer a more rounded signature of which T1 2nd gen comes into play there… The reigning champ of soundstage though is HD800S however, it’s not worth the price for explicitly gaming all considering.
^ yep, I seen a lot claim you can just run the HD800S with basic equipment and mind you, this is possible… however the technical performance that the HD800S has just isn’t there with weaker units even in gaming… it’s quite noticeable. Atleast something around $300 per unit for amp and dac or $600 combo or higher would be recommended imo for that headphone.
Be extremely wary on that headband, its the biggest fault of a T1. Replacing that part tends to run around $350 less you cut it off and manually put something else on it. Mind you beyers repair shop can sometimes specifically repair the foam for cheaper. To help out here incase others are wondering. I reached out to beyers repair services myself about this this was the responses.
Hi (redacted),
The head cushion is only replaceable as a complete unit with new ear cup yokes. That is part #916293 which costs $340 plus our labor of $35. However, I have some like new parts that I could sell you
for around $200. Let Me Know.
To initiate a non-warranty repair, please request a repair on our website.
Once your request is approved, you’ll receive an email with shipping instructions.
Please let us know if you have any questions.
Thank you,
I then inquired that its literally JUST the head cushion… as over in EU beyerdynamic sells the T1 head cushion separately while NA does not… the response was…
Hi (redacted),
I can just replace just the head cushion if everything else is intact and that part is only $82 on the 2nd gen plus the $35 labor.
Thank You,
Even on 3rd gen T1 that stupid headband is still in place… why they decided to use such a dumb design like that where it can fail in such a way is beyond me… DT 1990’s headband relies on screws that are located on the band itself… removing those screws lets you take the foam off and replace it if necessary… T1 however, relies on plastic clamps that require essentially being broken to replace the foam
Do keep in mind though, T1 2nd gen was once a $1000+ headphone its beyers flagship just the previous generation. In many ways I find the T1 superior to the DT 1990 the other flagship… however, 1990 is the more analytically aggressive headphone.
G6 should be fine if you really want to keep it around otherwise sell it and upgrade it, depends on how much you favor its extra options it comes with at that point.
Anything to do with EQ can also be done using PEACE APO which is just free software on the PC. If thats the only thing you find enjoyable out of the G6 I would say just upgrade it then. If you really don’t like fussing with Peace APO get yourself a LOKI like I have in my setup, not as flexible in terms of control but very handy for quick adjustments
So I decided to order a Topping L30, which will hopefully arrive soon and complete my TYGR purchase.
