(update in progress) Falenkor's Competitive Headphone Write Up. Now with added Hardware explanations!

The glaring problem with HRTF is that it’s too specific to an exact head size and shape and ear canal size and shape and mouth size and shape etc and doesn’t take into account a specific headphones stock tuning or driver distance from ear. While that may work if the stars align, it is BY NO MEANS objectively better in any way and certainly not universally better with all people and headphones. The most meaningful part of HRTF presets in games is basically the amount of crossfeed that can help make up for a weak and vague center image. Headphone capabilities are just objectively more important than HRTF and I think it’s worth mentioning that most games are in fact not mixed for stereo speakers and haven’t been for the most part for a long time. Object based sound matrixing is pretty much baked into 3d games in general. If you get any sounds whatsoever in your right ear when something happens exactly to the left of you, that’s crossfeed from an object based sound engine. It’s really not nearly as cut and dry as you’re trying to make it.

Atmos is object based as well and the reverb they add isn’t just instantly bad, it’s simulating real spatial depth. Hell, some games render audio reflections and reverb in the GPU with incredible amounts of accuracy and HRTF can’t do anything close to that with just an EQ preset. While some sound engines are total shit, lots are more capable than you would ever think and having more capable headphones will get you a lot further than some half assed generic blanket EQ setting ever will.

im aware that hrtf depends on the head size and earshape. Im also aware that most modern media isnt strictly mixed for stereo speakers and its still possible to locate sounds without hrtf, however this locating information is very basic and mostly achieved by volume differences between the channels.

So even if the object based sound matrixing is in nearly every game, the game needs to make the Mono-Sound-Effect still change in a way to make it sound like its actually coming from that direction. So its basically just a basic HRTF effect right? What other way is there to make a sound like its coming from a certain direction? So if the stars must align for hrtf to work, wouldnt that mean that the stars also must align for that sound-matrixing effect to work?

In my experience Stereo in games just cannot make stuff sound like its coming from in front, behind, above or below you. If you think you can, your most likely deceived by your brain, which uses the visual information to fill in the blanks. You can manage to figure out front/back by changing the direction in which your looking, which works in slower paced games but in fast paced games you just dont have the time to do that. Also there is no way to hear if something is above or below you. The only way to know that is by the occlusion effect which gets applied by the game, so the foostep sounds differently, but if i closed my eyes and wouldnt have game knowledge i wouldnt be able to hear from which floor it would come from.

I understand that hrtf its not universally better because it stll depends on your ears, but it should be an improvement for a lot of people. Also, if your one of the unlucky ones whose ears dont work with hrtf at all, than your screwed anyway, because everyone who uses hrtf and for whom it actually works, it will be an improvement.

I heavily have to disagree with that statement If i take a decent gaming headset, use that with a proper hrtf signal and compare that to my dt1990, hd560s, tygr, akg k702 with only a stereo signal, the gaming headset will stomp the expensive headphone in terms of pure ability to locate sounds.

Basically every hrtf solution i tried heavily improved my ability to locate sounds. Some dont sound as good (stuff like too much reverb) or even sound awful, but the ability to locate sounds improved almost in every case.

I dont understand. HRTF, virtual surround sound, binaural, however you want to call it is not just an EQ Preset. HRTF does the same thing what you explained that games would do?

Yes, but that occlusion effect is baked into the object based sound and I find it incredibly easy to tell if something is above or below me in basically any game with no presets whatsoever with the right headphones. Height is something some headphones just can’t do well, and that’s usually because of driver size and how far above or below your ear they reach, but they’re not firmly tied together. Take audeze for example, they have fairly poor height capabilities while a similarly sized headphone like an he6 has leaps more height potential. It’s not a matter of tuning, either.

I will say that some presets have some potential to make things better for example by lowering bass so it doesn’t bleed or overshadow the rest of the FR but again, it comes down to capabilities of the headphone itself and spatial information is micro detail. No matter how much tuning or tweaking you do, if a headphone isn’t resolving enough, it isn’t going to convey the spatial queues as accurately, there’s just no getting around it. I don’t care what gaming headset you’re using or what spatial audio you’re using, I know damn well they aren’t touching something incredibly good like HE1000s,HE6, T1.2s, 800s, Aryas, etc. It’s just not happening. I have a pretty strong hate for dynamic driver headphones in games and one of the reasons is bass bleed and lack of speed that leads to tons of congestion in noisy engagements and that congestion completely ruins any chance you have of hearing the micro details that make up the spatial queues. Obviously there are outliers, but across the board even the most capable dynamics I’ve used still have problems occasionally that even the cheapest planars don’t even blink at, but there’s also tons of shitty planars out there on the cheap end as well.

Using HRTF to fix a $150 gaming headset and saying it’s better than a $200 pair of headphones isn’t surprising at all, a lot of $200 headphones are FAR from ideal for positional audio and the outlier there, the 1990s, aren’t the best example of a $500 headphone for gaming, and while they’re very detailed and the imaging is very precise, they’re also pretty closed in (for an open back) and the bass bleed on them is pretty bad in boomy games (which is another thing that can’t be fixed without drastic EQ that will ruin more than it fixes and is a limitation of the headphones capabilities and stock tuning). Spatial audio presets might help some of the masking that’s going on and result in better clarity in the sounds you’re looking for by muting the rest, but it’s still only going to be marginally better than the default sound, which is just a flat EQ that still has object based sound, reverb, occlusion, etc like HRTF presets, just without the EQ and adjusted reverb. The problem with a lot of headphones that get really close to being great, is that they aren’t resolving enough to grab that last bit of precision and I do agree that HRTF can go a long way towards fixing crap, but it isn’t going to pull capabilities out a headphone that aren’t there.

Well, i guess 99,9% percent of gamers will not go above that price range. Im not arguing, that better headphones won´t be benefitial, they certainly are. My argument was more that i havent heard a headphone, that got worse with HRTF, it always improved. I honestly doubt, that a good HRTF implementation suddenly will make more expensive headphones sound less accurate, but of course i have no expierence with such expensive gear.

Of course, but the sound location information needs to be in the signal for the headphone to recreate it. You still didnt tell me why somebody shouldnt use hrtf? HRTF is the science/technology of recreating the sound direction like we hear it in real life. So in the end every game has to use some kind of hrtf technology, to make it sound more realistic.

If i understood you right, that in games like Overwatch i should disable Dolby Atmos ingame, in Cs:Go i shouldnt put the setting to headphone but to stereo instead, so basically just disabling any hrtf effect that the game developers used to get a signal which has more location information in it. That makes no sense to me, why would i use a sound setting, that has less locaiton information in it?

HRTF is quite different to something like Atmos where its trying to create the illusion of multiple speakers… in most cases, absolutely depending on the game as well as the set of headphones, something like atmos can completely destroy the sound and your placements making it a hell of a lot worse… I personally have this problem with headphones like my T1 where I actually cannot use such software as its genuinely awful… HRTF however is more along the lines of stereo instead of multi channeling which I can still make use of so it is the superior factor here.

This would be more opinion and based on hearing… since we hear things differently it makes subjects such as audio placement a bit more opinionated.

This right here is WHY it’s considered bad… same with virtual. Because having that set perfect shape is practically impossible… we are all different so some may really gain improvement while others won’t. It makes it extremely unreliable and niche

This is true, you never want to use surround sound softwares with HRTF… Honestly if you have a good set of headphones I would recommend never ever using a surround sound software that multi channels to begin with less its an intimate headphone such as sennheiser as large soundstages don’t gain really anything at all and it screws your imaging and separation up(outside of COD which has a terrible sound engine to begin with)

This again, hard depends on your setup and the game itself. Not all games benefit from virtual to begin with and as mentioned earlier headphones with a larger soundstage will suffer immensely from trying to use this… its better to use a stereo mix for the natural sound instead of trying to implement such a feature. It’s worth a shot but in 90% of my tests(again based on hardware) it usually is a terrible idea and I never encourage it. Especially if one is training to take on tournaments… I will never tell that person to switch to a virtual surround of sorts as you will screw up your practicing after getting accustomed to the change in sound.

and yet despite this? It has one of the worst sound engines in FPS gaming right now to my ears. Atmos helps, but its still ass.

in general, yes. Depends on factors.

^ agreed

hmm, theres misinformation and then there is opinion. In this regard, despite very common belief… no… the virtual surround sound isn’t good. If your wondering well why do they implement it into games… marketing for starters as that helps sell products and makes them look better as well. Now mind you, stuff like atmos will help the gaming headsets since practically all of them are extremely narrow and terrible when it comes to placements to begin with… but this is just a further excuse to make shit products anyway.

^ this and thats the biggest issue… as it can be very good… or just downright dreadfully bad its far too unreliable in many cases to be considered the better option over stereo

hmm, no? Definitely not deceived… keep in mind you hear differently as well as while your speaking from your own experience here… I have zero issues telling those locations whatsoever without the use of enhancements.

Depends on game, your amp and dac provided your not trying to drive these off a motherboard to begin with, capabilities of the HRTF your using, the headset, and you yourself and how you hear things… this is extremely subjective and on a by-person basis… there is no way to compare yourself to say me or the others of the forum since we would all have different results in a test like this.

HRTF is not no, but in many cases of virtual surround sound it does implement EQ to extract more detail

Point blank, you should use what you find helps you the most… since this is such a subjective grey area… you shouldn’t bother listening to others… if it helps you, and the stuff is already built in, use it… if it doesn’t then drop it simple as that.

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Doesnt matter if its Atmos or something else, they all do the same thing. If you feed Atmos the information of the object, it can do the same thing as a natively integrated hrtf, if you only feed it the information of the speaker, it will visualise the position of the speaker. But yeah, there arent really many games that support Windows Spatial Audio, so with most games it will end in a 7.1 speaker simulation.

If you plan to play in (Lan-)tournaments you probably cant use any of the software, no matter if its HRTF or EQ, so you will just have to live with what the game gives you natively anyway. But when your planing to do that, you probably wanna just use the same headphone (which is probably a IEM or closed back one) even for home playing. Consistency and getting used to the sound of your headphones and the game is important, so i wouldnt even be using open back heapdhones at home if playing in tournaments is the goal.

If you think Warzone is bad, you should hear the sound design of Vanguard, footsteps in this game are literally non existent. :joy:

Yes, they definitely add EQ. Thats why i personally didnt like Dolby Atmos for Apex myself, it added too much Bass for my liking. After trying out several different programms, i ended up with HeSuvi and its oal.dflt preset, that works the best for my ears. Even tho Apex still only offers a 7.1 speaker emulation, that setup massively improved my ability to locate sounds in this game.

A game always has to use some kind of hrtf to even place sounds, otherwise we would just get mono sounds in each channel, which would make it basically impossible to locate anything properly. But developing a HRTF sound will cost a lot of time, money and effort to do it properly, so its just easier and cheaper to keep it simple, its simiar if not the same as modern music or movies are mixed. This maybe is more consistent with different ears, but it in the end it never can be as acurate as a proper done hrtf, if the hrtf matches your ears.

Its also a lot easier for gamedevelopers to keep it simple, since you wont hear the difference of placement that well anyway. One example of that is Counter Strike when it introduced its hrtf, people complained that hrtf makes the game sound worse, especially the knife sounded muffled. Reason for that was, that the devs placed the knife sound on the players feet instead of its actual positon. You couldnt hear that with the old stereo sound, because the simple stereo just lacked the ability to place sounds vertically. So devs actually will need to have work more precisely, if they choose to implement a proper hrtf solution.

So, in terms of being able to tell directions, HRTF will always be better than a simple mix done for stereo speakers. The science behind HRTF is solid, a hrtf signal has way more location information than a simple stereo signal, its just a matter of how good your brain will be able to “decode” that location information. Lets assume that the used HRTF matches your own HRTF 100% (which is unrealistic, i know) than you will get a big advantage over somebody who doesnt or simply cant use it. The question is, how good the generic HRTF has to match your ears to be an improvement over the stereo mix the game offers.

Another problem is that people dont know what hrtf is and what it does. Some people will probably even claim that simple stereo is better, even if their game is using hrtf, simply because they dont know better. I love it when people claim “stereo is always better” and then linking the virtual barber shop on youtube as their proof, even tho the video is a hrtf recording.

I personally see “stereo is better for competitive” as minsinformation, because most people dont even properly know what HRTF/Virtual Surround even is, so when its mentioned i would personally rather have the advantages and disadvantages of it explained so people can make a choice with the best information they have.

Maybe i have been too opinionated because it just seems to really work well with my ears. I tried to find some studys to see, if there is a % of how many people are compatible with generic hrtf models, but i didnt manage to find any. I found something that it is possible to adapt to a different HRTF than your own in a VR environment, but even that didnt really have any consistent results. It would be interesting to know, for how many people the generic HRTFs actually work, and for how many it doesnt.

Since soundstage/imaging is mostly a HRTF created by the tuning/phsyical build by the headphone itself, it could indeed interfere. I dont think there is really any research about this, so i only have my personally expierence, but in my expierence bigger soundstage (with bigger i mean something like the AKG K702, i havent personally heard something super wide like the HD800s yet) acutally improved my ability to tell directions with hrtf. Narrower soundstage heapdhones like the HD660s were not that great, neither in stereo nor with HRTF, but HRTF did improve them a bit in my case. That is however just how i perceive it with my ears, that could be different for other people.

I think we generally have to be more careful with claims about headphones for gaming. I often read stuff like headphone A has better imaging than headphone B, that can be true for the person using it, but other people could perceive that differently.

There still seem to be consistent opinion about headphones, i think most people will say that the AKG K702 or HD800s will sound wide and something like a HD6XX sounds narrow, but people still have contradicting opinions about Soundstage/Imaging all the time, the most recent one is probably the “PC38X has best imaging/soundstage for gaming” recently spread by DMS, which a lot of people here disagree with.

I think there are so many factors to consider, to make such claims. Alone the unit variations of a headphone can change that, that is probably less a problem for High End headphones like the HD800s, since they seem to sound pretty consistent, but stuff like a Beyerdnamic Tygr, DT770/880/990 seem to have quite big unit variations.

Then of course our personal HRTF and the game used (and if the game is used with or without hrtf sound) play a huge role as well. So i think the most consistent method right now would probably be to actually to record the gameplay scene, to showcase where a headphone performs better and in what way it performs better. I think that is also a pretty good way to check ourselfs, if really the headphone we used gave an improvement in that one situation, or if just the gameplay situation itself made it really obvious where something came from.

We shouldnt forget that a lot of gameplay situations differ from each other, so we are unlikely to have the exact same situation twice in a game, so is it really the headphone which made it easier to spot something or was it just placebo or the game itself? I had a lot situations in the past where i felt like, wow, i wouldnt have heard this with another headphone, but after checking the gameplay recording that wasnt the case, i could hear it just fine with most headphones.

To come back to HRTF, even tho the tech is by far not perfect, and there are so many aspects on how it is not ideal, im still always surprised, how well it works with my ears. In this video for example, the HRTF version is just so much better for me than how the original game engine would play it.

For the most part yeah, but most games just don’t fully support it or have it poorly implemented to begin with.

This is the reason I encourage against it for tournaments… as unless its actually built in and activated within game settings you won’t be using it.

Depends on the tournament… most just use either cheaper gaming headsets or the higher ends will wear an aviator type headphone over some iems

agreed

I haven’t bothered touching it, but I have heard the horror stories when it comes to that game design… its sad. I really wish they would put some actual effort into their games… they used to back in the day.

Hesuvi is definitely a cut above most of them and is free software… usually when I get asked about 7.1 i recommend that to them as its pretty easy to get along with. I honestly despise atmos and most 7.1 softwares as they echo or just sound like shit. Built in HRTF is one thing but its another story when it starts implementing stupid things such as EQ preset and the like. HRTF has gotten better over the years… then again that doesn’t stop devs from being stupid and half assing the sound engine to begin with.

yes but all this takes extensive time and effort on their part… no games today implement proper HRTF to my knowledge outside of the smaller studios that took the time to do so such as Tarkov and its ridiculous sound placements that have pin point dead on accuracy.

Well again though there is a difference between the HRTF that we come to use regularly(it normally doesn’t have a shut off feature its just built in which is fine) compared to something like atmos… all the extra software is trash. Its fine to have HRTF and you are right it has extra information but it absolutely HAS to be developed correctly and implemented correctly into the game of which the problem is over 90% of fps do not have it properly implemented and there is no way around that. At the same time its very hard to even implement such a thing due to hearing differences and head size changes.

Its because of the bad reputation behind 7.1 and other softwares like it… alot of people want to defend the crap. Its not the same as regular virtual surround sound that has such an awful reputation… and we have been gaming with HRTF for quite some time now

Gave me a bit of a chuckle… usually by this it will typically mean default is better for competitive… rather than turning on settings so to speak such as a virtual environment. Which is technically true if your taking it serious as I mentioned earlier when it comes to things like tourneys.

I am honestly bothered by how little there is on research involving this… especially in the case of headphones like T1 with the curved drivers its a whole different change there that causes just large amounts of problems with these softwares and makes them dislike each other… leading to muffling, misplacements, echo, among other things.

For future reference, the akg k7 series there does have imaging problems to begin with and already has some issues with telling certain directions due to its oddball shape… something like HRTF will help this headphone despite its large size and better correct its issues. The imaging issues are a known issue with the headphone based on factual evidence, annoying but not a deal breaker atleast

I got a different result with this actually… however the imaging seems to suffer when you implement such things into the 660s… personally I think leaving the 660s as default is the best option… its laser accurate just has little in terms of soundstage

When I review a headphone I try to be as unbiased and to MY experience as possible… since we all hear very differently… mind you there is definitely cases where I will say… no this headphone definitely images better if its quite drastic in change or the field of sound it produces has a better 360 degrees field of sound or something. There are far too many people who have very little idea how to go about these claims or are heavily opinionated and close minded to others thoughts…

K702 sounds… wide to me but at the same time it isn’t fully circular and I have definitely had misplacements at times with them. I do like the headphone though… as for 800s I never recommend gamers that headphone… theres so much misinformation regarding that thing it makes me want to puke… its a amp picky headphone… you can’t just grab it and throw it on a basic piece of equipment and get full results whatsoever… it needs higher grade forms of circuitry to get that “better sound” out of it to begin with… and the imaging and soundstage can suffer from bad equipment… for a gamer SPECIFICALLY its not worth your money… there are plenty others like the 702, sundara, zeus, T1, XS, etc that all have very large soundstages if thats your goal without costing you at the very least $2000+ for a setup.

as for the 6xx… all the 600 models are narrow… anyone who says otherwise probably hasn’t had larger or has stuck by sennheiser… thats why if you want larger you swing to the 500 series instead.

Don’t get me started on this… I own this headset. It’s the best HEADSET that is open back… which already extremely few of those exist to begin with… with what… another sennheiser and an astro to compete with? $50 headphones best this piece of junk and the pads are extremely small and tight that I can barely see them properly fitting people to begin with less you have small ears and a small head. Id sooner encourage IEMS, shp9500 with a v moda, hell ksc75x from drop with a mic would even be a higher recommendation from me as it sounds better

well 800s essentially has exactly what competitive gamers search for… a less intrusive bass, higher upper mids, and a raised upper treble where the sound places emphasis into detail of the upper mids to treble frequencies… it lets you highlight all the sounds you really want to within most competitive fps outside of specific weird changes such as Siege and having floorboards be located within the bass

as for the beyers… they have large unit variations at the same time are still extremely good for the price… beyers are known for extremely accurate imaging but tend to have a hit or miss sound signature… which seems to be why more people agree with the tygr and 880 since they are less bright or V shaped so to speak… I swing towards the T1 2nd gen because it has an almost identical signature trait to the 800s for less than half its cost(granted its still amp and dac demanding)

Its things like this, that I enjoy games that have theater modes so I don’t need to capture everything… I can just go replay it but I do these tests myself with headphones when I am sitting with them just to be sure I am hearing what I am without the “heat of the moment” getting involved

in most cases of my tests, its truly just the headphone actually performing well or poorly. Like, why did I die by a guy sprinting around the corner I didn’t hear him he sounded like he was downstairs… go back and check the feed… change headphones and the result would change.

There are some cases where this just isn’t the case and its more along the lines of the game just being ass but it depends on the game

Has someone tested the ZMF Beyer Pads (preferably on a 1990) and can give some impressions? A blind buy at almost 110$ with shipping and tax to Europe is not really worth the risk.

I know that the ovidius tx-901 dropped a few months ago or so and arent really recommended for music. Anyone know if they beat the aeon open-x at gaming? Or would be able to just compare the two? Thank you in advance.

Hey @Falenkor , what would you recommend as the best upgrade from Philips SHP9500 with Brainwavz XL Micro-Suede pads? I have a budget of $200-250 and a Schiit Fulla E (newest model). I primarily play Apex/Warzone/Overwatch. Thanks for any help in advance!

depends on what your looking to improve but probably Sennheiser 560S, Hifiman 400SE(post pad swap), or dt 880 250 ohm(would say 600 ohm but I believe that fulla cannot drive them iirc)

can’t say I have, they are quite expensive for pads.

have not tried this however, outside of zeos(who good reviews practically everything in existence and is vague as all hell on actual descriptions for sound) I haven’t particularly heard great things about it.

Wider soundstage (I feel like the SHP9500 is just a little too narrow for what I’m looking for). Better imaging, I feel like I can generally locate the sound but I want to be able to pinpoint the sound. Sound separation, I feel sounds can get clumped and it makes it hard to hear footsteps and gunshots when I have grenades or abilities going off next to me.

I have tried my brother in laws TYGR 300R and I felt the imaging was killer, but to me the soundstage didn’t seem as large and it has too much bass for my liking in games. I love bass in music, but I dig more of a neutral/bright headphone for gaming. At least I think I do, the SHPs are the only “audiophile” style headphone I’ve ever tried besides the TYGR and I like the SHP sound signature.

that is going to be rather hard to do within that budget unfortunately… shp9500 is no slouch so finding a better alternative with all those aspects is rough

Tygr is a redone up DT 990 while fully open most of the beyers don’t have that truely “open” feel to them as they are heavily dampened the exception to that being the T1 2nd gen but thats way beyond budget in this case. Mind you tygr is heavier dampened than the other beyers courtesy of that thick felt material over the driver

hmm, if possible I would say potentially try the 400SE as well as AKG’s K702(or one of the alternatives feel free to look into their respective frequency response graphs for k712 and k7xx). They aren’t particularly the best but may suit what your looking for quite well. AKG has some weird pricing here and there but when I did a quick search places like amazon have them at $200. More specifically id probably say 702 over 400se since the 400 generally requires pad changing and can be annoying(more so as its a weightier headphone as well).

Thank you for the recommendations! I plan on moving my pads over since I really enjoy how comfortable they are. According to Brainwavz chart it fits both headphones, so with the fact that I have a pad to change out already would you still recommend the 702 over the 400SE? I have a big head and strong neck so I’m not super worried about a heavy headphone.

Regardless of budget which headphones would you recommend that meet all my requirements plus have the sound signature I prefer? Thank you for helping me out with this and sorry for all the questions. I just have seen that you appear to be a highly knowledgeable individual within the headphone field :joy:.

that sounds a bit odd but its been some time since I have had that headphone… to my memory 400se still uses its pad adapters meaning other pads normally won’t work on it less they are already built for that hifiman or come with adapters that fit. Though what pads are you using? Do keep in mind, pad choice will also impact qualities such as soundstage and imaging as well as the frequency response your listening too for example leather pads are going to sound bassier than velour whereas velour will have more in terms of air and treble since they breath more

Well lets see… your not big on bassy headphones from the looks of it and you prefer a more neutral bright approach with a larger soundstage.

Large soundstages rules out sennheiser in most cases(special exception to HD800S which is ridiculous large staging) we can replace this with Focal later on the budget chain as they have a respectable soundstage space and depth and perform exceptionally well for a brighter sounding headphone… in this case we would want to look at the Elex from Drop which is a very damn good headphone and suits what your searching for quite well its just expensive.

In other brands we have AKG as mentioned… the K7 series is really the only ones I would encourage from them as others I have tested just didn’t perform as well in comparison… mind you they do have their latest and greatest models but thats over $1k which isn’t all that worth while for a gamer imo. AKG’s alternative here would be swinging over to Audio Technica which is the ever popular recommendation for budgets such as AD700X going from 700x which does suffer some issues like separation and congestion up to 900x or 1000x which solves a lot of these issues and then 2000x which has the exceptional imaging… the main issue with these is the comfort is a absolute hit or miss

If after a planar the usual planar recommendation for “bright” sounding headphones is pretty much just hifiman but the problem with them is just quality control. Many many reports on issues myself included has had to send back several to them under warranty. They tend to be hefty on the head per the norm for planars however they have an extremely open airy spacious sound to them. After 400se(more so if you dont care much for the pad changes and just want a very strong contending headphone) you can go straight to a Sundara or Edition XS which are like a damn gold standard within their price margins especially sundara which has a large following

Beyerdynamic while they fit pretty much the exact sound your searching for the issue with them is that dampening… mind you I won’t say not to try their other models because they are for the budget the most accurate and better performing of the bunch especially for imaging as you seen with tygr. DT 880 you can tell theres a wall on the sound from that dampening and its semi open… meanwhile 990 has so much treble it can be very uncomfortable however 990 definitely sounds more airy and open ended than the 880 or tygr 300r. Past the 990 you have the 1990 which is the more jack of all trades since it can be pad swapped any which way and adopt different signatures and it goes for a heavily neutral bright approach however its still dampened just not as much as 880 or tygr so it sounds a little more open… lastly with them is the T1 2nd which is what I use regularly… no foam filters, curved drivers, very expansive soundstage, neutral bright with just an extra hit of bass, if I could gripe about anything its that they discontinued this headphone, the parts to repair it are absurdly pricey outside of the pads, its 600 ohms and doesn’t work for most setups. I could bring up the newcomer 900 pro over there but I just don’t feel its worth while in a competitive use

we can skip on harmonicdyne… while the zeus will technically fit what your looking for its likely far too bassy for what your searching for.

eh a little bit, I do try at the least.

those should work but youll more than likely need hifimans pad rings(iirc they are like $10)

Though at some point I would encourage changing to a higher brand like Dekoni for pads… as brainwavz tends to fall apart or really kill a lot of sound qualities. Do keep in mind those ARE suede pads, meaning the bass is going to be increased and the treble decreased just not to the extent of leather or a balanced approach such as hybrid pads… its not ideal using that style of pad in competitive gaming

Which Dekonis do you recommend for as much competitive advantage as possible? With that being the case for the HE400SE, I think I’ll go for the K702 for now and save up for the Elex, since it appears to be ideally what I’m searching for.

as much as possible is typical velour followed by perforated

Hi awesome information.
So the recommendation is the dt1990 for shooter?
The 990 pro are very different in the location of the objectives?
The question is not about the price, but because the 1990 should I bring it from the US and the 990 I can have here.
But the plan is good to try to buy the ones with the best location.
I have the mmx300, astro a40 mixampro tr.
and I think that the mmx 300 sound much better when it comes to music, but to play mmm the astro are somewhat better to know where the shots are or come from.
I made this list to study and see which one to buy
sundara
ananda
r70x
he 400i
Aeon
DT1990
K712
DT990

I have a soundblaster G6 and the mixampro
They are not much from what I could read but the G6 moves the mmx 300 much better than the mixampro
Thank you very much
Raphael