(update in progress) Falenkor's Competitive Headphone Write Up. Now with added Hardware explanations!

[Falenkor]

@warlockuy

Hi awesome information.
So the recommendation is the dt1990 for shooter?

Depends on the amp, treble intolerance, your own sound preference, budget, etc but in most cases from those who have spoken to me something such as a 1990 or for a close soundstage something like HD 660s have been found to be a form of end game for many gamers of course these are much higher budget than the average person… if you follow games like Tarkov like some people do people like Pestily also use the 1990 to extensive degree, the headphone is well known for its analytically bright nature.

@warlockuy

The 990 pro are very different in the location of the objectives?

990 pro are quite old but the main difference there is that the 990 is V shaped in signature… its obscenely bright and has a lot of bass… which the bass can cause some issues. At the same time, depending on the game the recessive mids can indeed get in the way for some people which is why many will gravitate towards a dt 880 or sennheiser more in that regard such as sennheisers HD 560s at the same time the 990 is so bright it can cause discomfort which is what makes tygr 300r so sought after as well…

@warlockuy

The question is not about the price, but because the 1990 should I bring it from the US and the 990 I can have here.

I don’t quite understand the question at this point I do apologize

@warlockuy

But the plan is good to try to buy the ones with the best location.

you mean imaging? they are close to even with 1990 being slightly better

@warlockuy

I have the mmx300, astro a40 mixampro tr.
and I think that the mmx 300 sound much better when it comes to music, but to play mmm the astro are somewhat better to know where the shots are or come from.

very weak amplifier and comparing mmx which is more V shaped, closed back, large soundstaged to an astro which are more neutral and open backed its more than likely the upper mids where your finding you can know where the shots are better… imaging isn’t everything… you still want a signature that agrees with you but we all hear quite differently so different results with headphones is to be expected

@warlockuy

I made this list to study and see which one to buy
sundara
ananda
r70x
he 400i
Aeon
DT1990
K712
DT990

Skip Ananda less you try Sundara, I can’t speak on the new stealth magnet ananda

R70X go with the AD series instead… r70 is going to have more in the bass region. Swap this to something like AD1000x or a higher unit

HE 400I extremely hard pass on this… shouty and just pretty damn bad for a gamer in many ways… swap this to 400SE if you wish to try them but you may want a pad swap

Aeons: jack of all trades… expensive more of a luxury headphone its a harman neutral signature headphone with a lot to love but not for everyone… only take this if you want to include casual gaming too in there if its strictly for competitives though pass this for the others

DT 1990: very bright and may be uncomfortable, has one of the most flexible signatures thanks to a huge variety of pad swaps and filters letting its signature flip every which way alongside extensive EQ capabilities… this is one of the top dogs for a competitive gamer to go beyond this you will be looking at $1k+ headphones such as HD800S… this headphone however does have an alternative which is what you will see me mention alot as I use it… called the T1 2nd generation which has a signature similar to the HD800S but with much more soundstage and curved drivers… it excels better at verticality than the 1990 while offering close to the same levels of imaging

K712 only if you want a slightly more in the bass headphone otherwise you can swap this over to k702 for more analytical

DT 990 consider the 880 before 990 in most cases less you can try both more so if you dont know if your treble intolerant… do note however, that these headphones are best in their 600 ohm variation… not their pro but premium(sometimes labelled as Edition) as pro will have a coiled cable and only be listed as 250 ohms… at the same time that astro is absolutely 100% not going to drive these let alone pretty much all of these headphones in this list…

@warlockuy

I have a soundblaster G6 and the mixampro

The g6 will drive up to 600 ohm headphones and offer a better sound quality however, its still not the best in terms of sound quality… you would want a proper dedicated setup of amp and dac less your hell bent on keeping the mic port of the g6.

@warlockuy

They are not much from what I could read but the G6 moves the mmx 300 much better than the mixampro

g6 is much more powerful than the mixamp… that mixamp to be blunt is trash compared to many many other units that are similar

[warlockuy]

Thanks so much for the explanation.
I just tried one hd660.
and they lent me some dt990 pro 250
It was not what I expected, I did not feel that difference that I expected with the mmx 300.
I even found it more difficult to be able to identify directions in some moments of great noise.
The truth is that he is somewhat disappointed, perhaps the balancer of his PC is misconfigured, since it belongs to a friend.
But the truth is that I did not find that magic that I expected.
This makes me wonder if there really is that much difference with more expensive ones.
I tried the dt990 pro 250, something similar happened to me, the mmx300 which is closed, maybe I’m more used to them the sounds are clearer.
I brought home the DT990 for a few days, I don’t know if I should give it a chance or not, they are just borrowed.
So I can use them freely.
If I notice that my configuration for the mmx 300 does not work for me, I will have to work a little on the equalizer maybe.
Thanks
Rafael

[Falenkor]

@warlockuy

It was not what I expected, I did not feel that difference that I expected with the mmx 300

You mean 990 vs mmx? There wont be a dramatic change as they are of the same tuning just open vs closed back… 660 though should be very noticeable in changes

@warlockuy

The truth is that he is somewhat disappointed, perhaps the balancer of his PC is misconfigured, since it belongs to a friend.
But the truth is that I did not find that magic that I expected

Could be a number of things… if trying to use 7.1 that can absolutely cause issues… eq sound profile presets can cause problems, the dac and amp arent really that good especially in the case of the dac… etc

@warlockuy

This makes me wonder if there really is that much difference with more expensive ones.

Depends on hardware, use case, the persons hearing, softwares, is the signature different or in the same line as each other, same brand will usually have a specific house sound that makes them similar… there is absolutely changes but theres alot of factors that govern this or that can mess things up

@warlockuy

I brought home the DT990 for a few days, I don’t know if I should give it a chance or not, they are just borrowed

If you have the mmx… may as well give the 990 a shot since its there.

[warlockuy]

Hello
Let’s not misunderstand, they don’t sound bad at all in music, although I still like the closed more.

I speak specifically in my case in the warzone game

I use stereo only, there is no Dolby or anything 5.1 or 7.1.

Connected to the Soundblaster g6.
For the mmx 300 I use an equalizer that increases the frequency at the peaks of the steps, that is, under the 32 band, I raise the 125 band, lower the 250 band, then lower the 16k,

But it is not necessary in itself if this improves things even more.

I don’t use anything active from the sbx, everything there is turned off.

With the 990 I tried to do the same but as I said it is not necessary if not to improve things.
In any case, I do not find what the world says that the open back is the best distance direction, horizontal vertical, the truth is the opposite becomes diffuse, I listen, I am surprised more than once by an enemy without me knowing that it was there.
With the closed ones this only happens to me if the guy is crouched down or walking quietly.

But I clarify it may be a matter of my ears personally.

I also want to clarify that the Astro a40 for my ear have much better positioning than the 990.
And the mmx better than the Astro.

Now is the big question, is it worth trying more expensive ones?

I only play warzone.

I clarify it is only what happens to me surely other people must think wonders of the 990.

I played about 8 or 9 hours with them.
Enemies keep surprising me.

I’m not talking about entering a house and one is standing there, I’m talking about having 3 enemies outside and leaving without knowing they were there.
With the mmx I hear them fart, put on plates, change the charger.

It is very rare, to the point that I went down to Flac special thriller to see if there was that magic that they say and I did not find a magic greater than mmx300.

Only that by having the amp in hi to move the 250, the volume is higher.
Then the separation of sounds, instruments, voices, mmmm, left me wanting to find where the magic was.

The important thing is warzone, which is 90% of its use.

I clarify again this happens to me in my ears, I do not know if it is the reality of all or anything close.

But I couldn’t find the laser positioning of the open backs.

Sorry my bad English
Rafael

[Javigdlv]

well my 2cents are that i came from beyers 770 pro 250ohms (closed back) to a 990 600ohm and the diference is BIG in terms of directional audio. i play tarkov tho.
maybe your dac/amp is not good enough, i played with my dacs then amps and it can be huge. first i was using a motu 2 interface as dac, then tried an old bifrost and everything came more clear, same with amps.
first i was using an atom as is recommended for the 990 and it was good but then i testes my old amp a little dot 1+ that ive had for years with new opam rolling and new tubes for a better soundstage and again… it surprised me ALOT.
the only thing that i didnt like about the HP is the bass, it was too much, even more than the 770 pro, but i had on the 770 dekoni pads fenestrated and put them on the 990 and the problem was solved.

[Falenkor]

@Javigdlv

well my 2cents are that i came from beyers 770 pro 250ohms (closed back) to a 990 600ohm and the diference is BIG in terms of directional audio. i play tarkov tho.
maybe your dac/amp is not good enough, i played with my dacs then amps and it can be huge. first i was using a motu 2 interface as dac, then tried an old bifrost and everything came more clear, same with amps.

this would very likely be the case of the issue above… Using the G6 is fine for the most part provided your not after that super quality change in the sound at the same time the dac in question on either unit is… not that great… g6 has a decent dac but neither are all that good for the most part and you only see me recommend g6 for the most budget heavy gamers though you stand to gain more out of simply getting a regular run of the mill entry level such as monoprices amp stack, JDS, topping, etc etc those units within the typical $100 range which can be found at around $50-$70 used market value. The amp and dac govern a lot of factors when it comes to headphones that need power, especially something like beyerdynamics higher ohms

Then again! comparing Tarkovs sound engine to warzone? Theres no competition there on who has a better sound engine to test with whatsoever… Tarkov is ridiculous lol

@warlockuy

With the 990 I tried to do the same but as I said it is not necessary if not to improve things.

Well, Warzone in general isn’t quite that good in terms of a sound engine… in fact to be blunt about it… it has unfortunately one of the absolute worst in current competitive FPS so it makes it hard to really use anything to “gain an edge”.

Then again, I am surprised you need to put EQ on the MMX to begin with since it has raised treble… curious that you may need an even brighter headphone to help you again we all hear differently and experience will vary

@warlockuy

I do not find what the world says that the open back is the best distance direction

So, to be fair… comparing an MMX to an open back is slightly on the unfair side… the MMX300 is just the DT 770 which is well known to have a lot of soundstage that rival some open backs… its why its a great recommendation to begin with. Other closed backs are very narrow in sound in most cases

@warlockuy

I also want to clarify that the Astro a40 for my ear have much better positioning than the 990

That… definitely doesn’t sound right at all, something sounds either wrong with the headphone or the setup involved. Well that, or the sounds are focusing heavier in the mids… which on the 990 is more recessive. Perhaps try a Sennheiser or Focal brand headphone? See what you think on those? Sennheiser on the cheaper side would be the 560s(not the 660s… those have less stage) and Focal… thats a tough one as they are quite expensive… but if you still want closed you can try the Elegia

@warlockuy

Now is the big question, is it worth trying more expensive ones?

I would encourage instead, getting a proper amp and dac for your setup first before considering going further up the chain of headphones here… nothing too expensive but having a general entry level dedicated stack will help you perceive the sound better as it will clear up a lot of distortion and other problems with the headphone… amps and dacs help a lot in terms of sound qualities especially for later on more expensive cans.

Though as for the more expensive cans, after the upgrade to equipment I don’t see why not… you can go ahead and try other beyers up the chain if you like or other brands… dt 1770 and 177x go are the cuts above the mmx300 meanwhile T5P also exists for a low ohm more “portable” variant that is like the ever popular T1(the headphone I use). At the same time you have the flexible signature from the DT 1990…

[michty_me]

@Falenkor , I assume your list is still up to date?
I’ve currently got a SB G3 hooke dup to my laptop but don’t feel it does headphones justice. You’ve assisted in the past when I swapped out some headphones and audio gear (G6 to asguard 3) so I felt you may be the best person to ask.

Any portable devices you recommend with small form factor that pack a punch, USB-C along with decent sound stage, imaging and good detail?
I would consider the G6 again but feel that its sound felt a bit cramped after going back to it from the Asgard 3.

[Falenkor]

@michty_me

I assume your list is still up to date?

shockingly, for the most part yeah lol hence I haven’t put too much effort into its update. Only really a few headphones can be added like 400se, zeus, etc meanwhile id remove the gaming headsets and changes to the sennheisers

@michty_me

SB G3

that thing is hot trash and 100% not even worth considering… I tried that piece of junk considering their “claims” on what it can drive and it absolutely cannot even drive most things around 300+ ohms it also sounds like shit

@michty_me

Any portable devices you recommend with small form factor that pack a punch, USB-C along with decent sound stage, imaging and good detail?

probably something like Fiio BTR5k or something along those lines honestly… ifi xcan and other stuff like that may work as well as they are fairly form factor and have a decent amount of power… personally, tiny form factors are outside of my area of knowledge in most cases so I would highly encourage a respective thread on this… many people who use IEMs or travel with closed backs will have more extensive knowledge on this

[michty_me]

Still a great list, I’ve been coming back every so often to see whats changed or if anything has.

Yeah, It really isn’t the best. I probably should have looked at it more before purchasing it. I’ll create a new thread for recommendations too. Thanks!

[Dwatson]

Possibly unique situation and suggestions needed.

Hey, thanks for creating such a great guide and thread!

I have a modern high-end mobo with Realtek ALC4080 codec and it’s terrible. Occasionally it will glitch to a high volume static sound that is painful with headphones on. I want to bypass this onboard audio and improve quality.

I just ordered a set of Beyer TYGR 300r to replace my aging Bose AE2.

I already have a mod mic 4, and it works ok but is generally too quiet.

I realize the TYGR don’t need a DAC/Amp, but I want one to bypass the Realtek chip and I thought something with a mic input might work better for the mod mic.

Should I get something like a Schiit Hel so I can keep the mod mic 4, or just get a basic DAC and buy a USB mod mic…

I play a lot of different games, and I also like to listen to detailed music like jazz/blues, so clean audio (better than Realtek) is a big bonus.

[Dwatson]

Maybe I only need a Schiit fulla?

Any reason a focusrite scarlet solo wouldn’t be good?

Or maybe a SB X4 would be ok, but I’m not sure I want all that bloatware.

[givemebeer]

An audio interface should be more than fine to drive TYGRs with a 3.5mm to XLR adaptor for your modmic and the capability to go to a better mic if you decide to go that direction.

If a Motu M2 fits in your budget it’s probably he best combo of headphone amp/DAC/microphone preamp in its price range.

Here’s a review of the headphone amps of a bunch of audio interfaces and another might catch your eye. Interface Headphone Amp Comparison (Focusrite, Behringer, Audient, Motu, SSL, NI, and Steinberg) - YouTube

[Dwatson]

I watched the video, did a bit of light reading, and ordered the Motu M2.

Additionally, the Motu idea has rekindled an interest in recording music for fun. I haven’t recorded a guitar track for a couple of years.

Thanks for the recommendation!

[Dwatson]

Sadly the ModMic is not good on the Motu, not sure why.

I am using a Rode XLR PRO to convert the 3.5mm to XLR. In order to get functional volume levels I have to turn the Gain up to around the 12 o clock position and there is terrible static/background noise.

Any thoughts? Is there any reason to believe a Mod Mic 5 would work better in this case than the older Mod Mic V4 I’m using?

[givemebeer]

@Dwatson

Rode XLR PRO

Looks like the closest match Rode sells to the XLR unit antlion sells is the cheaper VXLR+ while the PRO unit is designed to convert an unbalanced signal into a balanced signal for much longer runs.

According to this VXLR+ vs Antlion XLR comparison the Antlion XLR runs hotter than the VXLR+ but its probably similar to your model.

Other than that all I can think of is turn off any Windows audio enhancements and make sure phantom power is on. All these devices are doing is stepping the 48v phantom power down to the ~5v the modmic wants and many onboard solutions can’t reliably supply.

Or you just ihave a defective Modmic, which isn’t uncommon.

[jurgupower]

@Dwatson

I am using a Rode XLR PRO to convert the 3.5mm to XLR. In order to get functional volume levels I have to turn the Gain up to around the 12 o clock position and there is terrible static/background noise.

I remember somebody from Antlion making a comment about this in a german forum. Thats what he said (source):

"Going from unbalanced (ModMic or other 3.5mm mic) to balanced (XLR) sometimes causes unexpectedly high line noise.

Unfortunately, there is no “fix” for this and due to these hard to explain/fix bugs we will be discontinuing our XLR adapter in the near future.

From what I understand Rode will continue to make her version.

And ours and Rode’s are unique products with (as far as I know) fully custom circuitry.

Unfortunately, I know this doesn’t fix any problems, but hopefully it helps to understand the source of the problem. "

[Dwatson]

Thanks for the info.

I guess I need to look at other solutions. I have a mixed use case of gaming, Discord chatting, and occasional recording of training videos for work. The headset mic was convenient, but obviously not super high quality.

Is there a good solution that I can mount on the desk between myself and my keyboard that can be tuned to not pickup the keystrokes during gaming? I’ve briefly looked at Elgato Wave 3 & Shure MV7.

I like the idea of an XLR device that I can plug into the Motu, but I don’t think I want to have to be super close to the mic or have it in be a distraction in my lower peripheral vision which might eliminate the MV7.

I guess I could try a ModMic 5 and see if it works any better…

Edit - I should mention I use a Logitech G710 with CherryMX Blues,

[givemebeer]

@Dwatson

I like the idea of an XLR device that I can plug into the Motu, but I don’t think I want to have to be super close to the mic or have it in be a distraction in my lower peripheral vision which might eliminate the MV7.

@Dwatson

CherryMX Blues

Software noise suppression can help with MX blues, but your best bet is probably an arm mounted dynamic microphone with the keyboard in its rejection zone.

[Dwatson]

I have a Rode PodMic and clamping desk boom enroute. I’m curious what it will be like to go from the freedom of movement a headset mounted mic to a device that’s fixed and requires me to be facing it and within 8".

This will be a big shift, but the improved voice quality will likely be well received by others, we’ll see if it’s worth it.

[Dwatson]

The Rode PodMic sounds really good. I have to turn up the gain surprisingly high on the Motu M2 (3 o’clock) to get reasonable volume with the mic 4-6" away. It picks up just a touch of background keyboard click, but it’s barely audible.

I’m not sure how I feel about it all just yet. The Motu and TYGR 300 sound amazing, the mic is good, but I suddenly have a crap-load of hardware on my desk to replace a “gaming headset”.