Celest the sister company of kinera just released the cheaper one - celest Ryio which actually looks better in the regard that is has controls and mute functions in line.
Asked a rep from the team and it is the same spec for the microphone as the Gramr.
Hi,
not sure if this is the right place to ask for advice in case I apologize. First of all, congratulations on the titanic work you have done in this thread. There is really so much useful material to study!
I am looking for closed headphones to replace my sennheiser hd599, which I have been really very comfortable with but unfortunately I need z.z sound isolation. Iāve read a few of your posts about some headphones, and Iāve got a general idea but Iād still like to ask you a specific question between some models to clear any doubts!
Among the various possibilities you always recommend first I spotted the cooler master mh751s, and they would have even fit me but for some reason they are at a particularly high price for now (120 euros in my country), so I honestly donāt know if they still make sense at this price.
Other options I considered are the Epos h6 pro, which are at a big discount for now at my place (130-140 euros), and beyerdynamic mmx 300 (230 euros). Iāve seen that you almost always recommend dt770 + modmic instead of mmx300, but in my case it wouldnāt make much sense because modmic costs a heck of a lot in Europe (like 70-80 euro, and so dt770+modmic would cost me as much as mmx300).
Finally, I was also considering the Audeze Maxwells, but they would go a bit out of my budgetā¦I would prefer to spend no more than 300 euros, but in Europe from what Iāve seen the price of Audeze will rise to 400-500 euros (how nice to buy from outside the US z.z), so unless they are clearly superior to other models I would tend to avoid them. Also because one of the features I would be most interested in (besides sound quality) is comfort!
They are headphones that in addition to playing Iād like to be able to keep all day to study and isolate myself a bit from the noise that my hd599s are victims of, and I donāt know how much the Audezeās do for me considering the weight, and the fact that the magneto planar drivers from what I understand heat up a bit. As a type of gaming anyway I wouldnāt just use them to play competitive games, I do occasionally but I would like them to be headphones that are suitable for multiple situations from listening to music, movies, to more immersive video games. Of the hd599 I really liked the much wider soundstage than what I was used to,and the fact that for the first time I could distinguish the different instruments! Maybe itās something obvious I donāt know, but for me it was really mindblowing the first time.
From what I understand the mmx300s are supposed to be better than the Epos, but what Iām wondering is whether they are worth almost double the purchase price, and more importantly whether they are as comfortable. Reading around, some say they are the most comfortable headphones ever created, and some say they are a death trap because of the high clamping force.
Of the epos, I have read people who are overly enthusiastic about how they sound and people who consider them the greatest insult to music ever perpetrated!
If you have any other recommendations, Iād love to hear them! But generally Iāve seen you recommend these models to similar questions. I thank you in advance for your help!
Last thing: preferably I would like headphones that are not too difficult to operate, I would like to be able to operate them without external amplifiers although I donāt rule out buying one in the future perhaps. For now I use the ps5ās controller (which from what Iāve read can handle headphones up to 80ohm impedance more or less without particular problems), and the motherboard (the sound card it says uses Realtek ALC4080 and Savitech SV3H712 AMP, I donāt know if they are decent or not however Iāve tended to have no problems with my sennheisers in that respect).
Wooo thats a read, expect a long response lol. Grab yourself a coffee or something for this one long wall.
First off, welcome to hifiguides and thanks for reaching out hopefully you can find all the information your looking for here on the site
Itās plenty fine to ask here since(while I didnāt expect it lol) this guide has become quite the popular spot for us gamers to float around I guess.
Hmm, coming off a Sennheiser in particularly will be tough to begin with considering their respective sound is quite special and why so many people love themā¦ They do have closed backs as well but they just never quite make the cut in my opinion
Just for further reference to your 599 here is the frequency response graph of that headphone. My largest issue with the 599 was that upper bass portion there as it bleeds a bit into those mids and yet all the same was lacking sub bass which I believe is why people would opt to the 598 instead which was more balanced around neutrality instead
hmm, well for starters coming off a headphone such as a sennheiser and going to a gaming headset would be a rather large step down in my opinion but you could do it. MH751 is one of those based off the Takstar Pro 82 much like hyperx models(except ya knowā¦ not crap like hyperx). As far as sound signatures go the mh751 is very similar to that of the HD599 so it definitely would work itās just that the rest of the technical performance will be different such as layering, soundstage, detail, etc.
Above is the mh751 frequency
red for 599 dark blue for mh751
did some digging for this. That is around $128 USD here, which the normal MH751 right now looks to be retailing around $70 USD right now. However, they did release a 2.0 version of the mh751 as well but I am still seeing the same price. I wouldnāt say itās particularly worth over $100 to be quite honest. However, it can be a one and done solution I suppose if you wanna go that round
Alright this is gonna be a long rather bit of a rant howeverā¦ Iām going to be hard dead honest here, I say this with no offense towards those who enjoy this headphone, but this can is absolute trash especially the closed versionā¦ the frequency is horrid, over the top bass/muddy, bleeds, hard separations cause it to sound all over the place all the while still congested at the same time, weird soundstage that is somewhere between intimate and average, and decent to average imaging in games(tested myself so this is from personal use). It is probably of late one of the worst gaming Headsets that I have tried of late while the open is much better itās still just not there. Itās discounted probably because so many people hate the thing to begin with as I am not the only person who has found the frequency bad. The headphone is more over the top bassy than the GSP 500 which had itās own share of problems with even in the case of the open back variation being one of the bassiest Sennheisers/Epos that I have heardā¦ the closed back just dials that up even higher for some reason.
I want to note that isnāt to say you canāt essentially āfixā these headsets through EQ and people have set up some EQ profiles for themā¦ but they are so far out of line it would take quite a bit to really dial them in, itās just not worth it in my opinion. The build itself is rather large so it can be more comfortable for some if you have smaller ears however it is also more on the unwieldy side. Mic quality is around the same as like the pc38x good just not greatā¦ its on the level of an average gaming headset really
You can try them if you want, keep a return policy on hand they are a love it or hate it relationshipā¦ The Epos H6 PRO uses the same drivers as the PC38x just with a separate tuning
this is a graph with the open variation cause for the life of me I cannot find anyone who has measured the closed backs. If I were to give the crown winner between those headsets its easy to give pc38x that one but againā¦ those are open backs.
What bothers me the most about these is the shills and paid advertise reviews I have seen on this headset(such as calling EPOS headsets or the GSP series ābalancedā or even āneutralā which is a laugh)ā¦ itās honestly just straight out aggravating itās not a very good headset(especially not for the price I would put it around $80 maybe $100) it may be enjoyed but itās all over the place. The volume knob half the time goes defective as well on these which still has not been properly addressed.
Do yourself a favor, try them if you wantā¦ I would encourage 100% that if anybody tries this try the open not the closed, otherwise save your money and I advise anybody else to do the same itās your money after all but I think this is one of my -least- favorite headsets within that price rangeā¦ as much as I hate the pc38x for several reasons they at the very least got the signature right instead of an over the top bassy congested mess of a headset such as that.
My advice to EPOS is to stop with the bass being so high itās ridiculousā¦ keep it a little above neutral(make sure the upper bass isnāt actually bleeding into the mids) not all gamers love huge amounts of bass that just overshadows the entire sound signature, keep the mids again around neutral or slightly elevated why the hell is there dips throughout the mids it creates a weird fluctuation that can be heardā¦ your with Sennheiser so this just feels like an embarrassment in comparison my question to this is where are those detailed forward mids I love from this brandā¦ apparently not here, work on your chassis a bitā¦ Try to make a lighter headphone as comfort is everything to us gamers who sit and play for long periodsā¦ make the pads wider for those with larger ears cause for me personally itās -extremely- uncomfortable, make sure your hardware for volume actually functions and doesnāt break on people within 2-3 months of use otherwise just donāt implement it, Work on your microphone so it doesnāt react so heavily to plosives or pick up the headphones sound this has been an issue with several installments of your headsets from Sennheiser and Epos both, if your trying to appeal to the competitive market maybe actually do your research into what frequencies should be involved instead of guessing and trying to market it anyway there is a reason your line isnāt used in tournaments compared to Astro or Steel Series. Just some thoughts from me personally if they ever bother to actually read feedback.
hmm, this would probably be a pass for you personally. I find it rather difficult to recommend a Beyer to you since you appreciate the Sennheiser lines of sound. Most Beyers are more V shaped in signature so the mids are a bit more withdrawn alongside heavier dampening so the sound can come across as more āmuffledā or ādampenedā. I still think the mmx300 is a solid as hell headset but at the same time they are also bright which I would be wondering if you were treble sensitive.
All in all I would probably ask what you have as a mic right now since you use the 599, the DT 770 is essentially the same set of cans but usually cheaper(and admittedly the older). The large downside though is of course the 770 best sounds are between the 80 ohm version and 250 ohm versionsā¦ meanwhile mmx300 sounds good and is less power demanding at 32 ohms(less special ordered which is the only way to currently get a 600 ohm variation of the dt 770 to my knowledge now). An amp may be in consideration when it comes to these particular headphones
So theres a few reasons why these are in contention and really it just depends on market price. DT 770 is quite the old headphone it can be found in practically mint condition here in the US for around $70 and modmic for around another $70 or so coming out to $140 USD making it a hell of a deal even in 80 ohms which in some cases can be ran ampless depending on use case. MMX300 is usually always more expensive but there is cases where it is the cheaper of the twoā¦ either way its roughly the same performance just depending on factors such as amplifier and price
That is one I have not sat with personally. Audeze are very different headphones though even in their headsets. Everything about them has a different sound, speed, layering, etc topped off with they are a planar driver instead of a usual dynamic. Usually they are a darker warmer, deeper sound. Mind you some change that mold but they definitely have a āhouse soundā to their line. Maxwell I believe is the newer one of their headset lines. Penrose was good its one of the current champs in the wireless bluetooth headsets for me taking what was good about their previous headset and improving the issuesā¦ so if the maxwell is better than that I would say itās worth a trial especially if your looking for a wireless headset
this is a graph of the penrose. You can see what I mean by ādarkerā by the treble there. It doesnāt sound bad at all and the headset does come with EQ profiles to even adjust that which is a nice change. Their headsets seem to come with EQ presets that have their house sound as standard but other EQ profiles for other uses in them. Penrose in particular does come with a 10 band EQ as well to fine tune everything which is nice. The versatility of this headphone is why I loved it so muchā¦ just the biggest issue I had with it was simply that the side with all the buttons could go bad/defective.
For the maxwells price, its probably still the best wireless headsetā¦ Steel Series Nova is hot trash I tried that recently and many others just donāt offer proper low latency like the penrose or in this case the Maxwell. The original version of these headphones was the Mobius and hyperx collab Orbit which were the same headphone essentiallyā¦ these had issues with latency and major defectsā¦ the penrose corrected all of that and it appears the Maxwell corrects the issues with the penrose as well seen in their descriptions I will post here below
In other words, very similar signatureā¦ just they fixed the issues and made it much better. I will probably pick this one up soon as well to see for myself as I really do love the Audeze brand
Something to note is that they started doing away from the natural 5.1/7.1 surround sounds that came from Mobius as wellā¦ if this is something your after(considering closed backs can kinda benefit from this) consider getting some software if your on pc like dolby atmos or something.
The mmx300ās biggest drawback is its deceptively demanding of powerā¦ meanwhile the audeze there has amps built into the cups to help avoid that.
Lol, so one of the things I will comment on is despite Audeze claiming ācomfortā they are usually rather heavy(as are most planars to begin with) and arenāt quite as comfortable as others. Leather pads build up more heat than other styles as well. If your into comfort though again you could try the Maxwell as it seems the entire design is new and prioritizing thatā¦ but if you want more breathability I honestly give comfort usually to someone like Beyer for their closed backs in lower budgets
Considering itās still a new product explains why itās so expensive as wellā¦ wouldnāt hurt to try them if you want or try the Penrose instead since they are similar in sound. Your call really on that. Really just depends on how appealing the extras are to you from that headphone and if the sound profile is to your liking. Audeze cans and planar drivers are something that you have to experience rather than have explained.
Not so much the driver but its mainly the pads and the clamp that gathers that much heat. Closed backs donāt particularly breath that much as they are designed to isolate your ears in a enclosed environment. I can say beyer are better because they are designed around using a velour pad which is the most breathable material while also being firm enough to completely enclose your ears. Really just depends on what your going for.
I know some would also recommend IEMS of sorts too as these could be an option if heat is a problem for youā¦ that is of course if your okay with in-ears rather than headphones
So something more well rounded in other words, which is fine. Any of the headphones your looking at can fit that quite well.
Considering the Sennheisers usually have a relatively average size soundstage youād be surprised just how large the sound can become. As far as this goes for soundstaging, Beyers will sound larger even in their closed back variation and have some of the largest closed back soundstage in low budgets that I have tried. Audeze are no slouch here the Penrose is shockingly deep and large itself I would expect no less from Maxwell. Sennheisers usually have right around average or smaller especially in closed backs from them where everything is very close and intimate. Of course soundstage isnāt the end all be all when it comes to things like competitive gamingā¦ a bigger soundstage can be a hinderance as I have tried to explain to those who for some reason wanna swing to the HD800S(over $1000 headphone). Nonetheless none of the ones you listed here have that issueā¦ really just depends on how large or concert like you prefer. Personally I adore the 770/mmx for how big it sounds for a closed back and I think is one if itās more sellable features again I recommend it often for gamers because its truly one of those gems especially here considering the price tag. As for the MH751 its just average across the boardā¦ its one of those headphones that while yes you can get better it really doesnāt do anything -bad- so to speakā¦ so itās a very safe pick
At some point though, since your mind was blown on stage you should try a hifiman like a 400se(sundara if you have an amp) or if possible maybe one of the harmonicdynes like zeus(harder to get a return policy on this one let alone try it). Give your mind a bit of a spin cause those stages are huge and in the case of the zeus if you can find it is one of my on the wall/shelf headphones cause its shockingly good(fun listening headphone just open back yet very pretty)
comparing these two if you asked meā¦ I would give epos depending on which one your comparing a 3/10 while the mmx300 an 8 out of 10. This is comparing several things such as competition, accessibility, comfort, sound profile, flexibility, build quality(beyers are built like tanks to begin with), among other things. EPOSā¦ they do make good headphones I appreciate them but they just have not hit the nail on the head yet. I think Beyer finally has managed to crack that code when they released tygr 300r I hope they continue this trend because both tygr 300r and mmx300 are fantastic. the other MMX series they released are decent enough but they are a bit of a pass from me personally
hahahaha, really depends on the person on this for starters. For me personally right, speaking as completely subjective personal experience. Sennheiser out of the box clamp force is atrociously uncomfortableā¦ to the point I made it mandatory when I get them to stretch them over their box or a foam block for like 3 days provided I plan to keep them. Beyers arenāt as bad but they can definitely be a bit too muchā¦ again same method works to stretch the metal band out a little its just a case of break in really. As far as pad comfort goesā¦ this definitely is going to depend on how your ears are and how large they are(laughably enough). Sennheiser as you know use Oval cupsā¦ this is the same for the epos and they have roughly the same dimensions(just thicker pads for epos) meanwhile beyer uses fully circular pads around 100-110mm in diameterā¦ however, in beyers earlier variations like the mmx300, dt 770, dt880, dt 990, etc they curved the pads inwars towards the driver so they act kinda like a pair of smooth ear muffs that cradle and clamp over the ear rather than sennheisers that completely encompass an oval ring around the earā¦ its another case of youād need to try that one to know for sureā¦ but personally speaking I would argue that Beyers have an insanely good comfort in comparisonā¦ Sennheiser(not epos) I think are very comfortable after broken in after a month after which they are pretty neck and neck in my opinion
I am not going to shill them but I will give credit where itās due. They consistently miss the markā¦ the h6 pro open just needs fine tuned as I stated above otherwise its okay for the most partā¦ If someone were to buy it I would encourage EQ to a large degree in order to really dial that in for a better use experienceā¦ with some changes it can really shine as a great headset for sureā¦ however the asking price is what I find insulting as itās just not worth that to meā¦ I get better performance out of a Steel Series around $110 than I do that headphone and that in itself is an insult considering no offense to steel series but thats pretty bottom of the barrel sound from my experience in this hobby(steel series still sounds good gotta keep in mind I have headphones all the way up to $1500 on my wall but I am also comparing it to many I have tried within that budget line even SHP9500 which can be bought here for likeā¦ maybe $40-$50 sounds better than steel series)
All in all what I find the most insulting thing is Epos is a part of Sennheiserā¦ -THAT- is what I find insultingā¦ because it does not do the Sennheiser brand any justice at allā¦ Sennheiserās brand of headphones are to an absurd degree better than anything in the Epos line up especially in terms of sound quality coming from the 6-- lineup. Your asking $180 here for the h6pro when I can just go get a mint condition 6xx here for around $150 - $180 instead and only have my mic to worry aboutā¦ no offense but I am going to take the legendary 650/6xx(6xx is a drop variation of the 650 practically the exact same headphone just in blue and cheaper drop unfortunately to my knowledge not that available in UK which they need to work on) that has lasted people over 10 years and still going over your headset that is all over the placeā¦ the biggest issue of the 650/6xx is the lack of bass shelf which is Eq fixable(or just throw the thing on a tube amp cause holy hell that works wonders). This is why I say the price is just a downright insultā¦ If you want to get more into that you can look into 58x Jubilee(again DROP) which is a revision of the HD 598 and tremendously good this headphone can be found around $100-$120 here which puts it in direct contention and is ampless with the capability of an antlion mic which completely destroys the h6pros microphone qualityā¦ therefore making it clearly the better choice by a mile. These reviews they seem to look at the headphone by itselfā¦ not its competition, not the alternatives, none of the extras that you should be paying attention to. By itself if you had no other choice then yesā¦ the h6 pro open and closed are decent enough to buy and use not for music but explicitly for gamingā¦ for music they are trashā¦ closed will give games like doom and other explosive games a hell of a lot of character and enjoyment but more rpg like games is where its going to fall short as the balance is out of lineā¦ open is the best bet as its more balanced overall and with a bit of eq to drop back the bass its correctly balanced to be use for all applications but no manner of EQ is going to fix the weird internal sound characteristics of that headset
I would never encourage someone to rule out an amp and dacā¦ theres a lot more to sound enjoyment in games as well as music that people are missing out on. We are so used to gaming headsets when in reality these headsets are rebranded lower quality headphones(such as takstar pro 82 creating hyperxās ācloudā lineup and Cooler Masters MH series) when simply when you went to the HD 599 you apparently noticed a rather large change. There is only a very small handful of headsets that I would encourage going withā¦ the rest in comparison to headphones themselves are just not worth it outside of very specific circumstances.
as far as recommendationsā¦ for the most part the guide is still up to date on that at the top there just exclude the headsets
at some point or another I would like to create another guide with all the things I have learned through my time in this hobby cause there is a ton of information that I would have to addā¦ however, with time constraints that is borderline impossible for me at this point in time.
Should be okay for the most partā¦ but I would avoid anything over like 80 ohms just to be safe least till you know for certain how much that can drive as its hard to tell with the ps5 controller.
So, came to my attention that some people were recommended Blon B-50s for gamers? Yeah no, bad headphoneā¦ does next to nothing rightā¦ less maybe you wanna throw it at someone or break something considering the build quality and weight. Hard pass, dead honest you might get a 2/10 from me from that after I listened to itā¦ Please save yourself the trouble/hardships
Please be wary on buying from Linsoul to begin with, the return policy is egregious with a 35% restock policy on any product you buy from them that you open and try(yes this included if its even in like new condition you have a 35% restock policy the moment you open the product) and you also will have to pay for shipping back to China through DHL(which is usually around $30-$50)ā¦ so if you say bought the Zeus for $350 youād have to pay a little more than $130(gotta remember taxes and everything in play plus potential Vat fees) plus shipping so were looking close to $200 just to ship it back to them.
I really canāt thank you enough. You have literally been amazing.
Iāve honestly been looking around for information for a really long time, and I really think youāve given me a good idea of what to expect from the h6 pros. Definitely discarded. I think I definitely would not like them, from what I understand the bass would end up overpowering any other frequency, so I think Iāll definitely skip them.
The mh751 actually from the chart look quite similar to my sennheiser (definitely more than the epos here) and they seem to me to have no particular problems with the bass. If they are completely the same as the takstar pro 82 I was seeing that those cost significantly less, however I donāt knowāit may be partly preconception but they seem a bit of a downgrade from my sennheiser.
The mmx300 seem like my only option for now. The comfort issue actually doesnāt scare me that much anymore because as you said even the Sennheisers are known to be pretty tight but they havenāt bothered me that much. The only thing that worries me a little bit is the treble, like you saidā¦ again I donāt know how much of an exaggeration or not, but Iāve read that some people find the dt770ās a bit tiring (not sure what that means but it doesnāt sound pleasant to the eye ahah) and in some cases even painful due to the treble being a bit too rough (this I guess is definitely an exaggerationā¦).
I was also considering the beyerdynamic dt700 pro x, which are supposed to be a little less prickly on the treble I think. But at the same time I think they get worse as a soundstage so Iām rather doubtful.
This is so true. One thing that left me shocked was hearing new instruments in some of the songs I was listening to, but beyond the music ā¦ when I play there are really background noises that I had never noticed. This I honestly donāt know if it is due to using openbacks, or the fact that being more neutral headphones than usual there is not the overlapping of frequencies that I was used to.
Mmm in any case I think Iāll try one of the beyerydnamic and in case I donāt like themā¦ Maxwell it is! I really care very little of the wireless honestly, and I donāt rule out using them with the cable anyway. The only problem aside from the weight of the maxwells seems to me to be the leather earpads, and I honestly donāt feel much tempted by the gel replacement earpads (yes ok, they take longer to warm upā¦ but once the internal gel heats up after a few hours, youāre back to square one with leather earpads, right? haha).
Anyway, really thanks again for all the help and all the time you have dedicated to me! You have been amazing!
They are taken from the pro 82 but not the same. They have been retuned, rewired with a microphone, among other things to refine them a bit more for the mh751. I wouldnāt encourage the purchase of a takstar pro 82 really.
Beyers are traditionally built like absolute tanks with special exception for very specific headphones in their old lineup. Comfort is also interchangeable when it comes to beyersā¦ one of the more appealing natures of beyers other than the build is that you can change the pads to something potentially more comfortable like from Dekoni without destroying the sound but instead changing it in different ways. Sennheiserās are very fussy about changing pads and usually this completely destroys their respective signature meanwhile beyers typically donāt have this issueā¦ and is also why their closed backs like the 177x go from drop or the DT 1990 come with more than 1 set of pads. Now mmx300 to my knowledge will not come with another set of pads however if you wanted to tinker with itā¦ you could easily look into what kind of sound your searching forā¦ say you wanted a bit more bass but keep that airy treble quality you could go to a Perforated Leather so it still breathes but you get those qualities you want this is just an example. Beyers pads are also thinner than something like dekonis placements so if you felt the driver is too close on your ear you could opt for that alternative as well as they do also offer velour replacements that are just thicker.
So the thing is that everybody is very different in this regard. The treble for me personally doesnāt bother my ears in the slightest. You can test this a bit by just turning up treble on a car stereo or set of speakers or something but this is just a rough testā¦ I would encourage making sure thereās a return policy in place just to be safe about it. At the very least this will tell you if you have sensitivity and know what to do in the future when it comes to your headphones.
Very different use
can ignore that rather large dip at 4k, its not as bad as it looks to be fair as itās not audible to the ear in the mix. Both are very good but really it depends on what your looking for. My biggest complaint on those newer models is the lack of pad swap capabilities due to the new system they have in place which as of right now makes it to where to my knowledge there is no pad swap alternatives. However, at the same time the new pads can actually be taken completely apart so the outer cover of the pad can be cleaned if it gets too dirtyā¦ while you can still technically clean other pads this makes things a bit different in that regard. Really this just boils down to preference but from my experience, for gaming? I will just take the mmx300 at that point but some people may prefer that more neutral/balanced approach instead which is fine. Both headphones stage just fine but to my ear the regular mmx/770 stages just a bit more while the 700 is a bit more intimate to the ear. The pads are also of different velour where the 700 prox has a softer, thicker, more smooth velourā¦ however for me the pads were a bit too small in diameter
a lot of characteristics are the cause of that such as detail retrieval, separation/layering so things are able to be heard easier within that mix, among other aspectsā¦ most of our gaming headsets really are just dreadful in terms of sound performance they give you gaming grade sound that is simply putā¦ passable but not good, not worth the money, and they cut corners at every angle
when it comes to the pads yeah pretty much, however I would not be surprised if some pad alternatives with maxwell came out as Dekoni made pad styles for the penrose and mobius as well
Of course, itās not at all a problem. Feel free to swing back and let me know how things go if you like after you get your cans.
Are there any updated 2023 gaming impressions on the Focal Elegia? Iāve been trying to get an idea of how it performs but everyone seems to have a different opinion on it. If it has good imaging with some vertical sound-stage then I think it would probably be decent for my main game - Hunt Showdown. I donāt mind if it brings a bit of fun to the sound as well, Iām not crazy competitive.
I had planned to get a mid-high end open back like the Edition XS or 1990 but the Elegia is too cheap to ignore right now at 399 AUD!
Apologies on the late responses I have been crazy busy what with moving and the like.
As time goes my opinions on these things change, as far as Elegia goes I normally donāt encourage this one anymore for competitive specifically but more of an all rounder choice due to its signature traits. While itās quite open sounding and very dynamically impressive like the rest of the focal line I wouldnāt specifically say it soundstages or images quite as good as some of itās competition such as Hifimanās, Beyers, Sennheisers, etcā¦ at the same time itās one of the better well rounded closed backs for a cheaper price due to itās age now granted this also depends on budget, something to keep in mind as these are luxury headphonesā¦ as such something as simple as a pad swap can run you as high as $200 for a pair of pads with Focalās brand
Provided you had the budget, and this sound signature was what you were looking for specifically then yeah, I donāt see the harm in itā¦ I would encourage attempting a trial run of the Elegia first though as Focalās natural house sound is a bit more uniqueā¦ otherwise if you want a clearer quality sound look into sennheiser or hifiman, if you donāt mind treble and a bit more dampening you can check beyers
In terms of competitive specifically speaking, I would say the elegia is some steps below something so laser accurate and sharp like the 1990. Hifiman is a preference for sure as their headphones tend to be a bit on the weightier side of things which may lead to some discomforts(on a by person basis obviously since this is purely subjective but I have issues with hifiman in long sessions due to weight many planars are like this where they weigh a lot more)
Hey @falkenor, so I recently have decided to give up CoD. The FPS issue and micro stuttering are just killing me. I have talked with you before and you advised to try the Senn HD560S (due to it having a smaller soundstage and it would perform well with CoDs garbage sound engine). Due to this, I just bought and am wanting to get into R6 Siege, jump back into Apex, and put more time in Overwatch 2.
With the above games considered, and I know the Senn HD560S does well in basically all FPS games, but would you have any other recommendations for the above games when taking into account their sound engines? Thank you for any help in advance
Seems that a great many have decided to move on away from this game due to all the issues that seem to go ignored.
Smaller than the alternatives but still a relatively good sizeā¦ it fits most fps just fine for the most part and many have came back with positive results with the headphone outside of the most extreme of cases like tarkovā¦
Siege has some strange sound placements in the lower mids at times so too recessive of a bass can be a problem and apex has soundstage limitations where the engine will not allow you to hear from a certain distance away from youā¦ 560s and tygr 300r both perform very well in the 3 games listedā¦ the only potential flaw would be verticality which is hard enough to find a headphone thats good for that even in terms of headsetsā¦ 560s imo is better than tygr due to a bit more clarity to my ear but if you feel you need more air and a surrounding headspace you may wanna look into something like hifiman but I play those games myself and have used both 560 and tygr without any issues on my end
Hey thanks for the detailed response, I completely forgot I even made this post until I checked back in here the other day.
I havenāt pulled the trigger on the Elegia yet, though now itās even cheaper at $329. I will say the impulse to get one died down a bit with more thought on it. It would be nice to have a decently high end closed back in my collection but I lean more towards open backs for sure. Also Iām not able to demo pretty much anything that isnāt considered mainstream as I live in a relatively small town. I just have to buy blind after doing as much research as possible.
Iāve been looking into the ATH-R70x as I keep seeing it come up in comment sections, Iāve seen a fair few people saying it has incredible staging and imaging as good as the 1990 but also a warmer more fun sound signature at the same time. Sounds too good to be true but I might have to get one and see. (I see you commented similarly on it above)
Also wanting to replace my jank DAC setup at some point, right now Iām using a Motu m4 into Lyr 3. Not ideal obviously but I needed an interface for mic and guitar stuff. I was mostly set on getting a Zen Dac v2 cause I prefer warmer sound and it seems quite versatile with the option of the inbuilt balanced amp, unbalanced line outs (would go to the Lyr 3) and balanced out (potential future amp upgrade).
But then I found the Fiio K7, which seems to have pretty universal praise outside of some firmware issues which should be fixed by now. It is reported to have a warmish to neutral sound in spite of it having typically neutral/bright internals (AKM dac*2 and THX amp). It has more inputs than the Zen Dac but lacks a balanced line out, has a much better internal amp and comes with external power. Iāll post a screen below of the review that really got me interested in the K7
Hmm, I am not sure who in the world claimed something like the R70x was a āwarmerā sounding signature compared to the DT 1990, especially when using 1990ās other pads as it makes it V shaped, since the R70x has some issues in terms of bass distortion and is also quite bass recessive in comparison to many other headphonesā¦ a quick search into others who have graphed the headphone definitely shows the bass being below neutrality by quite the amountā¦ at the same time the āwing systemā or rather itās headband on these line of headphones definitely do not agree with a great many of people to my knowledge so if you are to try this one I would recommend having a return policy handy just to be safe.
Itās not a bad headphone really, but not particularly one I would encourage over say something like ad2000x since imo itās just better than the r70x in many ways especially vocals(mids). However, these lines of headphones have very little in terms of bass or bass impact are quite bright sounding and typically have thin sounding mids no matter which you go with from my experience. You will see I recommend ad700x but that is dominantly because itās pricepoint is extremely cheap for its performance to a gamer.
If I were to recommend something in these linesā¦ I would sooner tell someone grab a sennheiser instead such as the 650ā¦ as while it has less soundstage it just does sound better imo than something like the r70x even in terms of gaming itās just better sounding and more immersive overall.
If you were looking for bass though, I still wouldnāt consider ruling out something like the DT 1990 with itās capabilities of EQ and pad swapsā¦ the headphone is extremely good in both music and especially gaming(with gaming being itās strong point in my opinion considering I donāt think everyone appreciates that much treble in their music).
Wouldnāt say ideal but not a bad setup either, lyr running a bit on the warmer side being a tube(granted hybrid which is always odd) and all really just depends on if your wanting to switch to a solid amp or keep it tubesā¦ imo for competitive gaming solid is a much better performer but for casual gaming I adore tube amps for what they can do which makes lyr an interesting choice.
I would agree that while the k7 is, sorta, slightly better I would still highly disagree some things such as on utilizing things such as hesuvi outside of the absolute most extreme of cases as most of the time these software cause more problems then they solve especially considering how touchy the game sound engines tend to be. As far as his remarks towards verticality and placements I will agree that overall it has a sharper image simply due to sound profile, better clear sound distortion againā¦ sound profile, and is better on spatial recreations(thanks to neutrality for the most part) making it able to be a better use case towards vertical placements(asgard 3 has this capability as well btw and is a warmer more colorful alternative). The reason being is he is comparing a warm sounding amp vs a relatively sterile neutral sounding amp(k7) thanks to utilizing the THX chipset(which if you look into usually that equipment gets rave reviews but as a gamerā¦ itās relatively boring, bland, and can be found rather lacking from person to person despite being the more analytical kind of sound). While one can definitely preach about the k7ā¦ if I were to put my two cents on these two it would be that upper mids to treble is better on k7 but anything under those frequencies k7 will fall short and the winner goes to ifi zen v2 in that regardā¦ though if I am searching for warm and spacious I am just going to point someone to asgard 3 in that same price bracket.
Overall, itās a very strong little unit however with that comes lack of power since itās a combo unitā¦ something to keep in mind if you plan to utilize high impedance headphones(such as the r70x which from what people have tested can drive up to 1000 ohms but really is around 450+ ohms of power) is that this amp is going to lack in terms of power. Just as an exampleā¦ if you were to try running a 600 ohm beyer off this amp it will struggle by quite a bitā¦ i wouldnāt encourage any headphone over maybe 300 ohms for that oneā¦ the k7 can even struggle in the case of some 80 ohm headphones that have harder drive sensitivities.
If I were to rate themā¦ itād probably be Asgard 3 > Ifi zen dac v2 =/= k7 if were going strictly competitive thoughā¦ k7 would likely win but I would sooner just point to likely a straight up THX amp like the 789 or something extremely neutral for the most part. Note that while I say dedicated amps this is solely due to the fact you already own the rest of your setup but also that the dedicated amps can just be directly hooked to the pc and be relatively okay with a dac purchased later or something
You can use the TRS balanced outputs and the unbalanced at the same time on the M4. Its a really solid combo that can allow you to spend more money on more impactful upgrades (amp, headphone) before replacing it as a DAC.
Your biggest upgrade from current setup would be a more powerful analytical amp than the M4 onboard one to complement your lyr as falenkor mentioned.
I wouldnāt touch the dac side until you decide to jump into something more along the lines of a bifrost2 tbh.
I think it would depend on what headphones are in question before jumping to something to this degreeā¦ bifrost is quite up thereā¦ if the intent is low ohm headphones that arenāt all that picky then the amp/dac combos in question will work fine imoā¦ again though, really depends on the person and how far they wanna take itā¦ gaming has limitations to how far you can really take it unlike music setups
Though absolutely agreed on the m4 and I would encourage taking this route over a combo setup if @Candyman has intent to completely overhaul the setup of sorts
Iāve read over most of the thread for it on headfi and about every second person who got one is saying things like that, and Iāve seen a lot of claims that itās an āupgradedā or āimprovedā hd600 as well. There are a fair few that disagree with those conclusions though. Seems itās a pretty divisive headphone over there lol.
Assuming theyāre the same price would you recommend the DT1990 over the AD2000x? The beyer seems to have shot up in price and not come down yet, actually I can get a Focal Clear brand new at this price too right now. (~$800AUD)
The R70x frequently goes on sale here for less than half the price of the 1990(sub 400AUD), one of the reasons why Iāve been so interested in it. I dunno if that changes your opinion on it at all. I think I could probably import a hd6xx off drop for about the same price as an R70x here. Though tbh I donāt have too much interest in exploring sennheiser right now.
Thatās good to hear cause the dt880 thread hates my motu dac lol. I want to keep the lyr for now, Iām more wanting to expand my setup so Iāve got choices between what to use so thatās where the K7(or whatever) would come in
yeah I do agree that software is mostly bad, I used to have a xonar card with dolby headphone 7.1 turned on all the time and it was a huge improvement when I finally turned that crap off. I was more interested in the other things he was saying
Yeah so this is what interests me about the k7, cause itās a THX but less like the other ones in terms of sterile-ness and also a dac upgrade in one unit. For reference I used to have a SMSL sp200 paired with the su8 dac and thought it made everything I plugged into it sound so bland (HE4xx, dt880 600, dt770 250) that I preferred the sound from the headphone out of the interface.
Iāll have a look at some dedicated THX offerings for sure though, what youāre saying makes sense. I think Iāve got warm covered with the lyr so I wonāt bother too much with the asgard.
Yeah for sure I do really love how versatile the motu is. Iāve got the lyr connected to it, powered speakers through the balanced out, a secondary PC feeding audio through the 3/4 line ins, still have spare unbalanced and balanced outs with all this, itās great. Iād just been told in another thread that as a dac it was pretty rubbish and by far the weakest link in the setup, glad to hear it isnāt all that bad cause adding another dac would complicate my set up a fair bit.
My original plans were to run this until I could afford a bifrost 2 or maybe an rme interface so yeah Iām perfectly happy to go back to that!
Itās hard to say where Iām looking to go with headphones cause thereās so many things on my radar at once, just canāt afford to pursue them (yet). The list of things Iād definitely like to get in the future are HE6sev2, Edition XS (or similar priced egghifiman), something from Focal, Harmonicdyne Zeus Elite and an in ear like the Orchestra Lite. So basically the whole spectrum of sensitivities lol.
Stand-alone THX sounds like a good starting point though, I know some of them are pretty good with iems too like the 789.
Anyway, post is already too long. I really appreciate the help with this
Further confusing since head-fi usually goes more by measurements to my knowledgeā¦ and by measurements alone one can easily see which headphone has more bass/warmthā¦ Feel free to test it out if you want to though, sound is already pretty divisive.
That is pretty insane price wise for the 1990 considering that clear is usually double the price of the DT 1990. Focal clear is a dynamically impressive headphone for sure I canāt really say whether that ones worth it as it has a special spot imo. As for dt 1990 vs ad2000x I would choose ad2000x if I wanted more of a mid focus with more air/stage in the sound but for flexibility and analytical presentations I would go with DT 1990. As far as imaging goes thatās a rough one since 2000x is extremely accurate.
equal to around $250 USD give or take thatās not a bad price on the r70x to my knowledge. Canāt hurt to give it a whirl if theres a return policy in place for a few reasonsā¦ youāll get to try their house sound as most of their headphones have a similar respective sound, in other words r70x will sound similar to things like the ad----x series in a lot of ways, you can see if the comfort is for you since they all share a similar headband, and know for sure whether youād like to go further into that brand of headphonesā¦ however, I would definitely encourage making sure you have quite the amount of power as I said the r70x is quite the power demanding can at 470 ohms and drives up to 1000 meaning you definitely need a relatively strong amp. Lyr I would think can power them fine just not the k7
lmao well most are gonna tell you an audio interface isnāt all that great for dac useā¦ itās always better to get a dedicated dac instead. Also, DT 880 is picky as hell being one of those especially at 600 ohms that really comes to life with a good setup otherwise it tends to sound like muffled garbage among other problems.
Nah, k7 still has this as itās sound profileā¦ itās a touch different but not by much. Still sounds relatively sterile and what not just without a lot of power like you would get from as mentioned smsl branded amps or thx. Not a bad little unit for itās price but if your looking for a less sterile sound I would advise against it personally and at the same time you will want more power than this for r70x and other more demanding headphones.
Makes sense, I would just suggest looking into things like SMSL, Topping(amp onlyā¦ dacs lean warm depending on which you get), and THX for the more neutral / sterile / analytical approachā¦ Aune leans a bit that way, albeit slightly warmer, as well and if I recall correctly geshelli as well.
lol quite the list for sure, take it in steps though for sure.
Sorry Iāve been too busy to reply
Yeah the prices are really out of whack here, I feel like Iād rather get the ad2000x at this price point or wait for the 1990 to hopefully drop back down.
The Clear used to retail for over 2k here, I heard there is a supplier/retailer shakeup here causing these massive drops.
I think the Lyr would run it fine, not sure what the sensitivity on the r70x is but my 880 600ohm doesnāt sound bad or under-driven on it.
Alright youāve thoroughly talked me out of the k7 at this point lol.
Iāve had a look around it seems like stand-alone THX isnāt much of a thing now that the hype died down I guess. Drop no longer make any, the Monoprice one is out of stock and probably eol. The SMSL 888 models are still readily available but I really didnāt like the sp200 when I had one.
So with all that, my shortlist is just a bunch of non-THX SS amps in order of price.
The Drop + SMSL HO150X looks to be good spec-wise, but itās still a preorder so canāt get much information about it. Z reviewed it though and he likes it (lol)
Topping A30 Pro - more towards warm, something about it being class A at above 250ohms. not really sure about this one
Schiit Magnius - very sterile as far as I can gather, really not much hype around it even when it was new. I did see Josh Valour rated it high in a recent tier list (really the only reason I put it here at all) but no one else seems to much like this one
Iām thinking Iāll go with the HO150X and then start acquiring headphones
yeah at those prices, I would wait on sales and grab whichever you could if budget is tight. Honestly, any of these will work fine itās just some etch out in front. Over here 1990 is $400 range which makes it a very strong contender at the very top especially since after the whole $500 price tags the returns are marginal from my experience less music gets involvedā¦ Between the three while I donāt like to particularly go with an AD series I could get used to it I just would hate the lack of bass and thinner sound though I would still put it in a similar bracket for gaming amongst the 1990ā¦ outside of the soundstage of the 2000x though and perhaps the imagingā¦ I would probably just swing to a Sennheiser at that point as sound wise they just perform better to my ear and fit in more areas of music/gaming
I think it should be fine as well, Havenāt sat with lyr to confirm on that but if itās driving the 880s there then it shouldnāt be an issue.
Perhaps also look into beyers t1 2nd gen? Youād have to search third party a bit but someone may have it around thereā¦ its quite the step above those 880s and what I use as my go-to since moving away from the 1990.
I can say I am a bit biased against such sterile sounds for sure, but I never was a fan of the k7 or alternatives really. Only a small handful of combo units that I am really a fan of due to several reasons.
Look into Toppings more powerful units that lean less warm, seems from toppings units they are either warm leaning or more like the THX which is that more measurement analytical sterile approach, SMSL also does this alongside some other brandsā¦ may wanna create a respective thread based on what your looking for in amps for a larger list of recommendations in this particular regard. as I am positive some others here have more experience on that one than I do.
to my knowledge most recommend the asgard 3 over this, I think itās good as I tested it out but I still preferred the asgard as well. I think in the most strict senses I may take the magnius but I prefer enjoyment over performance as I learn to adapt to my sound as well.
He may get a bit irritable over the remark but Z really does like everything, and thatās okay lol but it makes it hard to understand what is good and what is not. I like Z I listen to him quite often when I want positive reviews on new hardware he stumbles upon but I tend to seek out others when I want a more thorough review like Joshua, DMS, Resolve, etc.
Definitely canāt speak on that unit but overall SMSL are usually very good units for sureā¦ likely worth checking out
Im thinking of picking up the K7 to use as a preamp and a Dac, Iāve already got a Schiit magni 3+ and a tube amp so I would like a more nuetral sound to even out.
I was also wondering if I should go for the jds labs atom stack or go for the k7.
Also are there any other amplifiers with multiple se inputs with a se output or a Dac with a preamp that is in this price range worth looking at?
Around 250$ is my price limit
I own Fiio K7 and it is not exactly neutral it is leaning towards the warmer side.
Topping DX3 Pro+ should be better for your needs and you also have the flexibility of using it as DAC/AMP or DAC only
