and the student (iem) can “cheat” with the speed by lowering the quantity.
A way to test how good the driver speed for the bass is to use EQ and increase it, sometimes it gets bloated after just 1-2 DB´s but some can survive with 4-5 DB´s.
The Tin Hifi P1 is one example of an iem that can handle a 6 DB sub-bass boost without decreasing the speed.
While the Moondrop Blessing 2 actually lost quite a lot of it with just 3 DB.
(Although this could just be a factor of how good it responds to EQ rather than the driver quality…)
This is another whole discussion! How and why certain headphones or IEMs can either accept EQ poorly or well.
I never thought about testing speed by increasing bass through EQ though. If the bass sounds fast and detailed at the stock tuning, does it matter if it falls apart if it’s boosted? If it is good at the tuning baseline, isn’t that all that should matter for general listening?
So I have been messing with a final lab ii recently, and I gotta say I really enjoy it with my apex pinnacle 2 u on iem mode, my guess is because it slows it down a bit, makes the bass a bit more loose and bloated (which sounds really good btw) and also expands stage even further for a really impressive experience while retaining midrange and treble control and technicalities, but using a inear prophile 8 on the same amp just sounds wrong, sounds like it’s gone limp in some regards, so for the most part BA tend to dislike higher output impedance from my experience prob because of the crossover design and damping factor, where single dd respond very well because they have a more varied impedance curve and no crossovers to cause issues? idk
Yeah that might be true, but I think it is a nice way to test the quality of it.
(especially for iems with low quantity bass, to see if the low quantity is just a way to “cheat” to a fast speed or if the driver simply is that fast.)
yes BA´s are much more sensitive to higher output impedances. They are so sensitive that an OI of “just” 2 ohms can actually change the sound profile of it!
(particularly important to match the iem with a low OI source if it is an all BA setup.)
Pretty much, the output impedance of the apex on iem mode is about 8 ohms and the final is like 22 ohms, where the prophile is like 30 something ohms. Generally though I have had interesting experiences with hybrids on higher output impedance amps, but for the most part for a pure ba design I would not recommend high output impedance amps
M0N, you raise another great point here… Is incredibly fast speed always a good thing?
With my intense listening I put myself through yesterday, It became clear to me there was an obvious speed difference between the two IEMs I was comparing. While going through my test tracks that are quite well rounded, I realized that I much preferred the slower IEM on music that was acoustic, intimate or romantic sounding. It had a warmer tilt and the longer/slower decay made the mix feel more mushy but I preferred it for those tracks.
Just my findings.
So my takeaway is that just because an IEM might be fast and that might be more technically difficult to achieve than a slower IEM, it might not be what everyone prefers or what everyone wants.
Really though that’s prob the best amp I have for them, I would actually just ignore the factor of 10 rule here or whatever it’s called, that’s my preference here with the labs. I mean some headphones even encourage you to have high output impedance, the mysphere 3.1 are 15 ohm but encourage you to use it with tube amps with an output impedance of 30 ohms or higher
In theory yes but in practice no, the goal is to be the closest to life for most, and by going too fast or slow you loose a sense of naturalness
Also I do have an amp that is a current drive amp which essentially from what I know completely eliminates impedance as a factor as a whole, and some of my iems sound excellent on it and some sound like ass, and that’s prob because they were designed to be driven by voltage drive amps and have an impedance curve to match, but when you remove that variable they sound real wonky. In general dd sound pretty poor on it but with full ba they sound really awesome
Yes, I do believe that is accurate. Slower genre is better with a slower iem while faster is better with faster. (sounds quite obvious when you think about it.)
Although as I mentioned, there is such a case as TOO fast bass. What happened with the F3100 is that it has a non-existent bass, combine that with the unnaturally fast bass (too fast attack and decay) and it makes it even worse.
Oh god I have so much to learn when it comes to amp pairing. I just hope sound comes out when I plug it in. lol!
I have a lot to learn in general. I really appreciate the expertise you guys have and for taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us.
Well I think that the most important part of pairing an amp to an iem is if the OI is low enough and if it powerful enough to drive it to its full potential.
the OI of the amp (the source impedance) should be lower than 8 times the iems impedance. So say an iem is 16 ohm, then the OI of the amp can be as high as 2 ohms. And for an iem with 8 ohms, the OI of the amp can be 1 ohm. Lower is almost always better though, so just strive to find as low OI as possible.
if you are using a BA, then the output power doesnt need to be that big as they are quite efficent. While with DD and especially planars, they need more power. (planars need a lot and I recommend about 500mw with those).
When it comes to amps, I listened to Zeos and he said the THX AAA 789 was good, so I got that one. lol
M0N, what would you say would be a good, safe amp to use with most IEMs? A DAP since they’re made mainly for IEMs? Is there a good, safe desktop you would recommend beyond Zeos’ rec of the 789? A 4.4 balanced out would be a benefit as well.
So this is also true in theory, but keep in mind that when you try to go lower in impedance you start to sacrifice other aspects of the amps quality, just like trying to have the highest damping factor if you go too far you can screw up the sound and end up with a boring amp with low output impedance. So while I would look for output impedance under 2 ohms for most iems I wouldn’t look for the lowest possible thing you can find
If you mainly use iems at this point thx does have the benefit of a pretty much non issue noise floor so that’s nice
Honestly I think looking into some higher end portables might be worthwhile because they were designed with more iems in mind than desktop solutions. But if you are looking for desktop gear, what price range are you considering?
