Zu Audio Dirty Weekend

Speakers & Subwoofers
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This is the measurement chart for the DWs.

DW Measurement
DW Measurement1409×1130 77 KB

Right now I’m crossing over at 50Hz. The amp board has a PEQ built in which I have turned off at the moment. The volume is at appx 1/3 and the phase delay is at about 170 degrees or roughly 11ms. (not sure about this, still playing with it) The cross over is set for a 24db slope and I have it set for lowest extension which is the “music” setting. There’s a HT setting that filters out rumble and a high setting which cuts the sub below 25Hz which is supposed to enable a little bit higher SPL while still maintaining good group delay… whatever that means. Haven’t tried that yet but I did want as much extension as I could.

Rythmik states that all of their subs can go lower than 20Mz.

EDIT: pro tips welcomed BTW. :slight_smile: Was going to give Zu a call Monday see what they recommend.

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22

There is so much info out there on the “Perfect or proper, or professional” set-up procedures. Unfortunately in the real world many of us have to make do with our imperfect and sometimes horrible rooms, with all sorts of audiophile level No-no’s and hurdles to deal with. I was fortunate enough to listen to a few set-ups where the rooms were semi-custom built for music and they sounded lovely with $100k+ worth of equipment and construction. I don’t have any of this so i best educated myself, and deal with a large amount of “GOOD ENOUGH” for me👍

In my own rooms and personal Experience speaker/sub placement Matters most. Also depending on which speakers i am using this particular week/month and what style of music i’m fancying depends on where i set my crossover, sometimes it goes surprisingly high before i find a sweet spot. Your job will be MUCH easier since you are only using 1 pair speakers and 1 amp for a single style system. Here is some reading that helped me a wee bit and gave me some ideas for my stuff.

http://www.audiodrom.net/en/as-we-see-it-tips-thoughts/70-how-to-accurately-set-up-a-subwoofer

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/stereo-subwoofers.htm

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23

Funny that Thundercar is on the list. I’ve been using hist stuff. And have a handful of the list already and the song I listened to most yesterday in the set up was Chic’s Good times. I’ll continue to listen through the weekend, thanks for the info.

If I was a religious man I’d say I was “blessed” by the fact that I’ve not listened to purpose built high end room filled with a high end system. I’d like to put that on my bucket list. For the time being the system I’ve got now is the best system I’ve ever heard, the big fish in a little pond syndrome.

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24

Another piece of info here since I’ve been living the with sub a few days now, dialing it in and getting accustomed to is as part of the system. I’ve caught myself saying on a few occasions to people here that the DWs need to be played loud to really come alive.

I was thinking about this today and I realized that with the sub in place, they come alive at a lower volume. I’m thinking that what I was doing by listening to them loud was getting enough bass out of them so they felt like they were delivering sound with authority. With the sub dialed in, they just always feel like they have authority while playing. I’ve actually found myself listening at lower volumes.

Pretty revelatory learning experience, where I was blaming the speaker, what I was really blaming was the lack of tangible cubic “volume” of sound that only previously kicked in when I turned it up.

It’s there now always.

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25

Question for the brain trust here. I am happy with the way the sub has been integrated into the system. As they say, I hear only the speakers but if I remove (turn off) the sub, the sound completely feels deflated.

I’ve set everything but I’m struggling with the phase. There’s a variably set phase knob, from 0 to 180. I just don’t know what I’m listening for. I’ve given myself time to acclimate to having a sub but 0, 180 and 90 just to split the difference. I simply don’t know what to listen for.

Is the phase simply a matter of taste on the lead in or lead out tones coming from the bass?

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So just to double check, you aren’t using a crossover the the speakers and the sub right? Because depending on how you have it set up you might have a crossover still in effect even when the sub is powered off. Or you just got used to the wonders of a sub lol.

This is a simple guide on how to set phase

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No cross over, I meant sounds deflated in the fact that I wasn’t a subwoofer believer before, or at least I convinced myself of that. But I quickly changed my mind. It’s not like the ZW DWs are low frequency slouches either, but a sub simply completes the sound.

Let me spend some time with that JL guide see what happens.

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Ah that can happen lol. My living room setup actually typically have the subs off, but turning them on is a whole different experience for sure lol

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I don’t meant to turn these into a wall of text every time I post an update but I LOLed today while scrolling down.

@M0N I wound up spending some time with the Sub phase settings and wound up leaving them close to what I had originally but at least the JL audio guide give you a clue as to what to listen for which is what I was struggling with.

Bryston
Bryston4032×2268 2.57 MB

So I got a new (to me) DAC. It’s a Bryston BDA-1 long in the tooth for sure but it’s the first extended taste I’ve had of a true audiophile level DAC in my home, on my stereo with my music. Despite this thing being ten years old, Brystons newer DACs basically use the same design but simply upgrade the Delta Sigma decoder in order to introduce newer features like DSD and greater than 192Khz PCM sampling. It’s well built for sure but there are signs of its age. The USB in only supports up to 48khz, since it’s not connected to a computer, thankfully it’s a non issue.

I’ve been trying to get DACs home, really evaluate them and if I don’t love it, then resell them. I’ve found that in the DAC world there’s actually a pretty decent resale value to things that are a cut above entry level. For example, I sold the Bel Canto DAC2 I was using (which I actually enjoyed a lot) but it was just too limited, couldn’t reliably take in a SPDIF signal above 96K but the sound of it was very enjoyable. Bought for $275 and sold for $265 throw in the roughly 5% more for fees and shipping, but that’s the same for even newer equipment. What I’m trying to say it’s not a bad price to pay to be able to critically listen to something long term and find out/educate myself as to what my tastes are. Knowing what you like is the most important factor in ultimately being satisfied and able to live with your purchase.

So the thought it that I can easily ditch this DAC for $550, I’m okay with the small loss but now I’m at another level of understanding in what I like, what I’m looking for and what I can demand of a DAC in the future if I do wind up buying something more up market. This thing was $2,000 in 2010, at the height of the economic crisis, so it was high end. Technology advances, but good sounding DACs I’ve found age very very well. I wouldn’t hesitate to encourage folks to try this method of exploring vintage gear since there’s definitely a market for it and as long as you’re not looking to make a profit from it, then the give or take 10% cost is negligible IMO for the education gained from having that extended first hand experience.

On to the DAC. I’d like to first say that it’s the first time I’ve been able to realize HOW MUCH DETAIL is actually in a well recorded 16/44 CD. Not sure how much is gained by the “oversampling” technique that had been fashionable a while back. But strip away all BS, I think I am more than satisfied with the level of detail in a well recorded CD quality audio file.

This thing is dual mono DAC with a complete dual mono circuit though to the output stage. The presence of state width certainly was an improvement over the SE Bel Canto DAC2 but more importantly, it’s the first time in my life that I’ve been aware of “depth” and “height” in a recording not just the width of the stage. I could hear which instruments were behind or above other instruments, certainly a new aspect for me. Kind of mind blowing when you hear it, and again this is 16/44.

So far, I’m happy, shit my stereo is the best stereo I’ve ever heard. I should count my lucky stars. I’d love to hear a purpose built high end high dollar system some day, but for now I can unequivocally make that statement with my very humble very frugally put together build. nah nah nah nah nah

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30

I can sum this up by the phrase “High end will typically always be high end for audio” lol

Imo going to a higher end dac gives you more lower level detail, and also tends to be the most improvement in the time domain, spatial recreation, timbre, and overall naturalness of presentation from my experience

You’ve gotten great deals on the stuff you have got, solid setup :+1:

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31

Do you find that this level of processing capability requires higher end 24/96 files or it can bring in that improvement into existing redbook CDs?

Honestly I don’t really know if I’m at that level of sophistication yet with my learning to listen. Then again it’s a lot easier to hear it when its there! Catch 22 maybe.

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No, a good dac will improve upon all formats, some dacs are made especially for cd qualty, just depends on the design, as long as the track is lossless cd quality or higher and has good mastering you will easily get an improvement in quality

I do think you can hear the difference between a native 24/96 file vs the same file in 16/44.1 but imo if the file isn’t available in high rez and only cd quality don’t worry about it imo (although some of the higher rez releases are remasters or higher quality rips of a master tape or something so that can sound a fair bit better in some cases)

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33

Great thread I hope zeos can review a set of these someday. I will eventually buy a set just need to fund 3 purchases before them.

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34

I downloaded Khruangbin, their latest album Hasta El Cielo (Con Todo El Mundo) on Bandcamp. It’s 24/96 download and it’s clearly superior to the CD rip. My first genuine A/B comparison.

It’s just that the way you put it, I don’t know if I can, let’s say get a $4k dac, plug it in and hear in my system what you’re describing. It sounds very nuanced and it’s actually a little bit intimidating. So if I hear it great, if I don’t hear it then it’s either me or my system that simply can’t resolve that little extra oomph?

A DAC for every system level kind of rule of thumb?

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I mean it depends on your source material as well, but also the rest of your components as well imo. Just to check is this about the whole high res vs cd quality or a dac overall?

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36

I guess it’s about a situation… can a better DAC ever not gain you something because you’re not as a listener able to hear it or because the system it’s attached to isn’t able to show it.

So the listener or the system then becomes the bottle neck to further gains by throwing a better DAC at it.

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I think it’s moreso at that point system synergy or system balance issue imo, you might have a dac that doesn’t jive with your system or have a weak link in your setup that prevents more noticeable improvement and holds other components back.

Mostly anyone with experience with a decent midrange system will be able to hear a difference, but it would depend on how much it matters to a person. People always tend to say that you are only getting an extra like 1% going higher end, but that 1% can matter a ton depending on the person and be a massive deciding factor lol

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Well, today I sold my Bryston DAC. (It was for sale a whole 20 minutes!) I have to say that I grew to love it but you know the upgrade game, reading, understanding more and more about what I like etc…

Became a member of the Border Patrol SE gang. I’ll get it Monday which will be the same day I ship my Bryston out to its new steward. I sold it for 25 bucks less than I paid for it and really got to know it’s sound. It’s a lovely DAC, yeah long in the tooth but a real timeless Burr Brown sound with excellent output stage. For those 25 bucks, I had it for four months and I feel much better prepared and much more educated in this next purchase.

To anyone doing the slow build up upgrade, if you buy smart, things that are a good value to begin, keep it clean and provide a good “personal” writeup of the unit when you sell it, you’re almost assured to sell it for about the same as you paid for it. And the buyer will know that much more about what they’re getting. Win/win.

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39

This thread has become a chronicle of my system more than it’s been abou the Zu DWs. I’m going to change that in the coming weeks months. Maybe a nice Christmas project when things are molasses slow at work and I can lump in my remaining days off. I will be “upgrading” my DWs with some DIY projects that should take them just a notch higher with little expense but a good bit of elbow grease.

In the mean time, I hate not being able to find internal shots of equipmentment. I like looking at the inside of stuff that I’m potentially going to buy. The Border Patrol SE had absolutely nothing when I was searching on the interwebz so PSA.

Here it is… all naked.

image5
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With the exception of the two input/DAC and output board, this thing is as home baked as it gets and it’s ALL about the power supply!

*listen to @Polygonhell

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40

There is no “output board” in the picture, the green board is a SPDIF to I2S converter and the black one is the DAC, though it appears to have some of the power filtering on it.
The output from the DAC just runs directly through the two blue Capacitors on the right.

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