The oval cup shape definitely gives off HD650 vibes.
[of course this is shape only. Not material etc]
+1
Many people donāt understand the concept of a target audience.
Manufacturers know who they are making the product for, they know who their buyers will be way before the release of the product.
That is not to say that these products are the best. Someone will prefer a cheaper product, but for the manufacturer that doesnāt matter, because they know that those who are spending the money have a different approach and mindset.
Itās a complicated and controversial topic.
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L300 LTD are fantastic. They were my favorites till I purchased SR-009ā¦ And I am running 009 on SRM-252S 
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So I finally watched the headfi review and yep I really want to try these on my 353xā¦wife might kill me.
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Might be worth saving up for that trip to space. You know, just to keep a safe distance from your then-wife, now-killer 
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SAVAGE UNCOUTH SWINE! 
using 009ās on a 353x is like putting a 3 cylinder in a lamborginiā¦
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My farrari is slower than my dodge omni. Still love the shit out of it anyways 
Plus, bad example. Ferraris and lambos are engines that happen to com stuck in a car. Its like putting a ferrari V8 in a FWD lancia family sedan, oh wait that one is still dopeā¦
What Iām relay trying to say is, holding the can back or not, a totl can on even entry level gear is still pretty fucking solid
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yes, it will be solidā¦but you are not getting the value for your money. youāre giving it regular gas, so itās running rough when with premium plus, it will scream and shine so bright!
Eh, idk man. Every time Iāve heard a totl can on mediocre gear Iāve preferred it over a lesser can on better gear tbh. Like diana v2 on micro BL still has more detail and texture than P6 pro ā gsx-mini ā arya. Iām personaly of the opinion that scaling cans to the max should be #1 priority in upgrading (assuming you have enough power to run them) then worry about sources.
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She a sweet woman that I donāt enjoy being away from but man dropping savings like that on a headphone without a conversation would have her go nuclear lol. My preferred method for audio purchases is ask for forgiveness but never really went of $1500 in on go soā¦maybe I should chance it lol.
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for ever action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
so totl headphone on mid-fi gear is just as bad as expensive gear on mid-fi headphones. everything has a balance. if itās an option for you, Iād see if you can demo your 009ās on some better energizers with your favorite tracks or tracks known to reveal so much more as the chain quality goes up and see.
in essence, a bottleneck has been created and the one you have is the worst as itās limiting the headphones while if you have a top end chain and only use mid-fi headphones on it, at least you know that they are performing the best they likely ever could, minus the few exceptions where pairings just donāt work for some weird synergistic / harmonic conundrum.
at the end of the day thoughā¦if youāre happy, thatās what matters. but in this particular case, I think youāre doing yourself a disservice and while āignorance is blissā, donāt really know what youāre missing out on.
ohā¦and as a quick add onā¦the amp is more important than the DAC, so Iām talking more about your energizer than anything else.
That is not my experience at all. Not all gear matters equaly imo with the clear higherachy (in my experience) being cans > amp > dac. I havent experienced true totl dacs and amps (thinking like 13r, aic10, weissdac, totaldac, holo may, etc), but Iāve at least explored basicaly everything outthere in portable work except the lp6ti and hm1k (including amps) and have never found source chain to matter more than cans personaly. This may just be a place our experiences and preferences differ.
Honestky, this just feels like a poor logical progression. Instead of focusing on maximizing the performance of the weak link the focus should be on total performance. If you are comparing two race cars to buy and donāt have any budget to modify them (back to your engine comparison) do you care more that one is faster than the other but could probably be better with a better engine or do you pick the slower car at the absalite limits of its suspension purely because that suspension is maxamized?
Probabaly my biggest disagreement is here though. If you are happy you have end game extra performance be damned. Hell, I donāt even care if you could have more performance for cheaper. If you are happy you are done. End of. No need to promote mindless consumption. This hobby is about enjoying music not about flexing what gear you have, so if you enjoy it with no wants thats it.
Which is understandable tbf
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Completely agree with your post. Enjoy the music everything else can come in time.
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you knowā¦going back to a car illustration, running a $4000 headphone on a mid-fi chain is like having a Lamborghini with a twin turbo V12, but having it governed so you canāt go more than 120kph (Iām in Canada and thatās the highest speed any highway / freeway can have here I think).
a $500 DAC or Amp will be the weak link in a chain using $4000 headphones. there are no if / end or but about it. wellā¦maybe a but, because you have shared, you hare happy with that odd ratio / balance. I, having heard higher end gear (Focal Stellia connected to a Questyle Twelve and then walked down to Clear, Arya, Ananda, LCD-2 and a few others) know the difference. I sure as heck cannot afford the difference, but Iāve been corrupted and yearn for it, LoL!
a comment M0N made in a conversation has stayed with me. how the L300 and L500 will also do better if you give them higher quality energizer than the oneās their base kits come with. and since M0N knows his schiit, that would mean running the 009ās on better than the 252s / 353s will also be beneficial.
I do think youāre doing yourself a disservice, but if youāre happy and you know it, good on you. I guess with all my back and forth and counter-comments, Iām just trying to say be open minded and not afraid to try out better. I honestly am happier knowing Iāve been corrupted by experiencing the pleasure higher end audio gear can provide.
all said and done, my endgame is whatever Iām listening to at the moment Iām listening to something. Iām wearing those headphones because I like them and how they sound. Iām not analyzing or critiquing how they perform vs. something else Iāve heard. I am enjoying them at that moment. I can do the whole analytical / critical thingā¦cause Iāve heard better, but I like to like my music. 
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Many people disagree with me when I go on my rants about this industry. And I rant a lot. And this is what Iāve recently said: people in this hobby will bash you if you buy a Susvara and arenāt using a top-tier amp. Thatās a fact ā especially if you say something negative about the headphones.
I have talked about psychology numerous times. In fact, too many times. But people donāt seem to get it. What people need to understand is that while you do hear this ādifferenceā, itās on a psychological level. If someone doesnāt hear this difference (for whatever reason that may be; whether thatās because they cannot justify spending that amount of money or another reason), they simply will not be hearing what you are hearing. And itās very hard to change someone elseās perception, especially if they stand their ground.
While there is a lot of biological stuff going on with our hearing, the auditory perception has a lot of complex psychological stuff going on. Things happening in our brain, our interpretation of sound. Unlike cars, which have a lot of technical, real stuff going on ā itās not exactly the best comparison between perception of hearing and cars.
Itās almost expected of everyone to have the same āWOWā experience when listening to top-tier headphones/amps/DACsā¦ but what happens when you do not have this āWOWā experience? Iāve had times where I didnāt experience the āWOWā, and what I ended up doing is questioning my sanity. Asking questions like āWhy am I not hearing what these people are writing about?ā. What I learned over time is to truly and fully trust your mind, your perception, and your ears. I donāt want to forcefully convince myself into believing something that I know I am not experiencing.
The audio industry is a business. To add to what I said in my first sentence, itās pretty much expected of you to buy a top-tier amp/DAC if you own a top-tier headphone. If you do not have a top-tier setup all around, people will keep telling you that you are missing something out. But what happens when you listen to the piece of gear that you are āmissing outā on and you are not impressed? Chances are, if you express your disappointment on the internet, you will be attacked.
Now, all of this is a rant, not directed towards anyone. But I will say I disagree with @Marzipan regarding:
Letās step away from the electrostatic field for a second. So, how does the price, something determined by the manufacturer, determine what should be paired with what? There surely isnāt some sort of chip in top-tier gear that unlocks compatibility with top-tier gear. I hope we can agree on that. If the manufacturer of the mid-fi headphone just slapped a top-tier price on it, would it suddenly be okay to pair it up with top-tier amps? The sad reality is that in the audiophile community the answer would be āYesā. If you had a mid-tier headphone that nobody knew was mid-tier, and you were told it was top-tier (price), your perception and experience would all of a sudden change. Youād use a lot of fancy words.
This is the āmonopolyā of the audiophile community and industry. Itās an ecosystem. A very well thought out ecosystem that functions. If you are buying a top-tier headphone, you āmustā buy a top-tier amp, DAC, this, that. And thatās how it goes in many cases. The person who is spending that amount of money will have no problem spending more money to complete their setup which brings them satisfaction. You know damn well that someone spending 5k on a headphone has money and will have no problem spending more on amplifiers and DACs. Thatās the truth, letās face. Thereās nothing wrong with this, because it brings happiness to this person.
Thatās where I strongly agree with @eskamobob1ās statement:
Couldnāt have said it better. More people would be happier if they kept this in mind. I think it should be normalized to be happy with what you have. The thing is, someone that does have a TOTL setup, somehow always ends up telling a person with financially inferior setup that they should have more, more, and more. Thatās toxic, especially if you are someone who gets influenced or affected by otherās opinion easily. It could make you feel empty, unsatisfied, and guilty with your setup ā whereas it was your everything beforehand. Thatās the part of the community I donāt like. I think both sides should respect each other. People with non-insane (expensive) setups should have no problem with those who are spending their $ on a top-tier audio setup, but those with a top-tier setup should also allow space for people who do not hear the same that they hear.
I am okay with both sides, and I always try to bring understanding to both sides with my rants. Like, itās okay if you can spend $20k on an audio setup, but someone, even if they can afford the very same setup as you, doesnāt hear the same āWOWā as you and thatās okay. Iād like to see that normalized. Some people need to learn to agree to disagree.
Also, making top-tier audio gear aināt a simple process, thatās what people also need to understand. As a manufacturer there are many costs that exist, from labor costs, to the cost of running a company, to the cost of acquiring material, lab test, equipment used to make the product, and just owning a working space. So, when it comes to making a TOTL product and making it a successful and profitable product, the price of the same product can be high. The only person who justifies this price is the buyer. Consumers have the right to agree or disagree with it, but the manufacturer truly cares the most about its buyers, the people supporting them.
Sometimes, even though a TOTL piece of audio equipment has all the complex technical aspects that benefit it audio-wise, if the listener cannot hear this (psychology), you canāt change that ā unless this personās audio perception changes and their brain hears the sonic difference and justifies it with the $
Regarding electrostats, they are considered as the absolute highest tier of headphone driver technology. I myself would say that a better energizer significantly benefits an electrostatic headphone. So far, my experience with dynamic drivers and planars has shown me that amps/DACs do make an audible difference, but itās much more subtle.
To end this long rant, I will say listen to it in person, test it out with your setup, if you can justify the cost with the audible difference and experience, buy it. If it doesnāt add up in your mind, nobody is forcing you to buy it. But I think itās very important to listen to it yourself instead of reading what other people have to say (in other words, donāt let other people tell you what you are hearing).
ā¦ I have no clue how I always end up writing essays.
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I disagree that the difference in quality is psychological. it plays a part, especially in totl territory where the differences between headphones are usually more nuanced than profound, like you would get going from a $10 headphone to a $50 headphone. in factā¦the whole profound changes scales up to about the $1500 price point, though in the $750 - $1500 I will admit nuance become more of a player than below.
I am also speaking of the normsā¦not the exceptions, of which there are many, but they are niche. many niche exceptions. audio is subjective though. but being subjective does not mean psychological. heckā¦I think this case of using a $4000 headphone with budget / entry level chain would definitely be one of these niche, LoL!
I donāt doubt the 009ās sound good on the 353x, because the lower end eStatās do, but if the L300 and L500 sound better on the higher quality energizers available, youāve definitely created a bottleneck that will limit just how good they will sound. this is where the subjective part really comes to play. you may be totally happy with how that pair sounds. but because so many have used higher end gear with lower end gear and heard the differences (itās not so subjective when there is a common ground that is agreed upon by the majority), they know youāre not getting the value for your money.
I havenāt had the opportunity to listen to lots of headphone / chain builds as I would likeā¦but I wonder where the scale balances on lower head headphone with higher end chain and having optimized the level of gear used may perform better than a totl headphone used with a lower end chain.
butā¦back to subjectivity. if you like it, that is all that matters, period. if that makes you weird and puts you in a niche that confuses othersā¦oh well, thatās more their problem than yours. however, millennia of experience in almost every conceivable topic has proven that best and not the best donāt mix well and create an imbalance. if you like it, thatās all that mattersā¦but you canāt say to me that Iām wrong to think pairing $4000 headphones with a higher quality energize wonāt have a noticeable effect. It will and the hundreds of thousands of customers Stax has had since they came out have proven there are baselines to go off of. so go ahead and rock the boat, but donāt go into a hissy fit (not that you haveā¦but you are disagreeing with the common sense the established baselines have created) when others disagree with you and provide the logic that shows you are weird and in the minority.
āyouā refers in part to Etroze86, as itās his use of unbalanced hardware that created this conversation, but āyouā refers in general to the niche, that want to use the exceptions as the basis that the common sense established over millennia is wrong.
again, if you like it, thatās all that matters. all I had been trying to do is say that the mix of such high end with low end was far from optimal and they should consider testing with some better gear to see how noticeable the difference is. if they couldnāt tell the difference, they would never have spent so much on a headphone in the first place! LoL!
audio is such an interesting topicā¦the level of subjectivity it has to every single person yet the colossal amount of data that establishes universally agreed upon benchmarks creates quite the conundrum!
weāre mostly just repeating the same thoughts and ideas, just approaching from a different angle, so Iām going to stop. letās get back on topic and talk about the CRBN!
ā¦so what about those KPH30i, eh? 
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My bad for not making this part clear, but I was mainly referring to amps and DACs. Difference between headphones is quite audible and noticeable (from different driver types, to different pads, materials, weight, etc.).
Hear me out, just my opinion, but I disagree with this. Auditory perception is individual, so itās not a majority/minority argument. Just because there is a large mass of people who share a similar/same experience, it doesnāt make things objective. Itās just a collective of people who share an opinion. If this was, letās say a shirt, you could say that if you are this body type, this height/weight & other body measurements, then you would fit this shirt.
I bring psychology into play if the person cannot hear a difference in an amp or a DAC. Even if it is proved (measurements and other scientific tests) that the amp/DAC makes an audible difference, this doesnāt mean anything if the person is not hearing this difference. Now, I guess you could bring the majority/minority argument here, because itās this persons problem that they cannot hear it, but at the end of the day, this person will be going home with their own pair of ears.
What is interesting about the minority is that they have strong beliefs and stand their ground. They donāt give in masses opinion, because itās their own that matters in their life.
Just like in many aspects of life, the core issue here is money. Some donāt want to be spending money on things that do not make a difference to them.
If the person with a specific set of headphones doesnāt hear the difference with a higher-end source, then it wonāt benefit that specific individual. Their experience will remain the same, while the number in their bank account will decrease.
Back to the CRBNās, they are amazing and exciting because we finally see something big, something new in the headphone space. The driver technology, IMO, is a big step forward.
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youāre just wrong. why? because I said so and Iām Lord Emperor Fancy Pants with an Inni not Outti Belly Button, thatās why!
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Hahahahahahahah,
Itās all love at the end of the day.
Donāt forget folks, enjoy your music!
Iām blue
Iām blue
Iām blue, da ba dee da ba daa
Da ba dee da ba daa, da ba dee da ba daa
Da ba dee da ba daa, da ba dee da ba daa
Da ba dee da ba daa, da ba dee da ba daa
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Leave me out of the psycho babble lol. Outsider opinion on the matter is you both are right. High end equipment deserves a great pairing and there are many many people out there that just canāt hear a difference past a certain point, so gear does tend to be unbalanced in that respect, cash is also a factor but yolo. Me personally I pick and choose what I upgrade first and to be honest I usually pick the headphone before the amp or DAC because I hear the biggest difference. I also want to get a Blue Hawaiian before I pick up another estat because for the life of me idk how it gets better than my L500 without a new ampā¦they are that good to my ears.
Back to topic I really want a pair of these because I am a big fan of Audeze and the cool projects that they work on. Iām a nerd and love that they went total hamfist on patient care using eatats.
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