Bad Guy Good Audio Rankings and stuff (under construction) (Part 2)

Ziigaat…Ziigaat…Ziigaat

WTF are these…Linsoul is knocking on my door

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Ebay notification for a used set of Twilights :crossed_fingers: I’ll deal with the fit

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Dark magicians, too… they’re impossible to fit properly!

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Omg those were the worst! Great sound though. The simgots fit well enough albeit aren’t as “custom” fit as resin sets. The advars also look like they would be a pain to fit.

The only single DD set I had that was truly a wonderful fit was the t3 plus

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Ahhh yes, the T3+ is actually a nice fitting single DD. The Rosefinch is a decent fitting single DD as well, so I know it’s freaking possible. Maybe it has to do with the acoustics of the shell?

Idk, I’m no Riku or IEM engineer. It’s possible tho!

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That’s actually a modern classic. Love that set :heart:

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I am no Riku nor work in audio industry neither, but here is my take looking from technical side:

Almost all hybrids have 3D printed/injection molded shells where the drivers are located. This is due to much better flexibility of 3D printing and possibility of performing operations that are not possible to do with CNC machining (for example making curved acoustic channels from BAs to the nozzle). If you print you have close to zero limitations in terms of the shape of the shell - basically what you design you could print. Therefore you can make semi-custom shell as well with all the protrusions fitting normalized anatomy as you want (though this is double edged sword as it may directly cause discomfort in non-averaged anatomically person).
There are metal multiple driver IEMs like Andromeda, or Meze Rai Penta for example, but my guess would be that they have internal plastic fillings anyway to fix the positions of the drivers internally.

Edit: Exploded pic from Bloom audio confirms for Andro - the black part
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In regards to Single DD IEMs most of those better ones are having metal shells. I guess the reason for that is better resonance properties of metal vs. plastic. 3D printing of metal in this scale is not very ideal in terms of the surface quality and much less precise than any plastic 3d printing especially resin.
(IE600 is an example that this tech may be feasible for IEMs, however I guess that internal structured are machined after the printing anyways to keep the repeatibility intact)

What you have left is basically CNC machining (or some stamping/MIM technologies both of which either are extremely expensive or they require very high quantities to make ROI for tooling sensible). CNC in principle is very expensive technology and the more complex part the more it costs as it takes more machining time which is the cost driver.
It has geometrical limitations as well (you need to have unrestricted access for the tool to perform operations), so in principle if you want to make the best margins you are left with quite simple shapes, straight holes and relatively small shells that you want to keep in the smallest “hitbox” (if this gaming reference makes sense) and cost intact.

This is example to give you the idea on the level of precision that internal cavities of IE900 require
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Or how the shells are made
IE900
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Twilght

From comfort perspective keep in mind metal shells are also heavier, so may feel worse in ear. I actually have very bad time with most of the metal IEMs I tried up to date and all of them had one common factor - very limited length of the nozzle and them being quite flat looking from the side. It was common for BL03, S12, Olina, Mele, VE SIE. The one and only metal IEM that works for me is Twilight - here I tip rolled through around 50 pairs of tips to find something fitting, but here I am and it was worth it. Also Twilight has quite protrudring nozzle as compared to the ones mentioned above

Rosenfinch has a part of the shell where the driver sits made of plastic therefore may have been shaped more effortlessly and cheaply to fit the standard ear without any of the cost limitations.

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Dita Marketing agree’s…

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As someone who DOES make IEMs, I can say with confidence that material has much less to do with resonance than it does with “feel” and “prestige”. At IEM scale materials have basically no impact on the final sound. The reason for many single DD IEMs having comfort issues is mostly due to a mix of reasons: People like big drivers because of an inherent bigger = better bias, and DDs not really liking a long sound path. Not saying the sound path has to be as short as possible, but in many cases, the driver is quite large (10mm+) and quite in line with the canal to keep the sound path reasonable length/shape. This often ends up giving a bulbous uncomfortable shape in the area where your ear is narrowest, between your tragus and antitragus.

Adding on to the comment about the rosefinch being comfortable, looking at pictures of it you can see the driver is mounted significantly higher than on most 1DDs. This of course adds notable tuning limitations.

The best way, in my opinion, to do a 1DD that’s comfortable is to pick a smaller driver. See the IE600!

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Thanks for the feedback from experienced person side! What IEMs are you making btw? :slight_smile: Also - would you say that IE900 internal resonance chambers are more of a gimmick to rationalize the high cost for the IEM than giving any particular SQ benefit?

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I think that the IE900 resonance chambers do exactly what they say they do - but if that makes the product’s cost worth it or not is entirely up to the individual. Sometimes you need to kill a peak and a Helmholtz resonator is a great way to do so.

Resonators like that are used in great effect by many IEMs, a notable example is the 7th Acoustics Supernova which is well known for its smoothness.

So like always, it depends?

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A&K’s spiel on the Aura’s chamber…

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That is why Sony’s engineers decided to mount their rather large 16mm drivers perpendicular to the ear canal… transversely vs longitudinally or longitudinally vs transversely…whichever way you perceive the output of the driver

The con to this configuration is still a compromise as the EX800s are still disagreeable to some…to me they are not the most comfortable but they are definitely not the most ill fitting…I put up with them but conversely don’t use them often

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Eight years ago…you lit the fire

Fell off the wagon but came back last year…with a vengeance

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That is true to a certain point…but my Meze Advars are the most comfortable monitors I own (for me) and sports a 10mm single

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Stand tall Jason…and carry a big stick

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Seems as though you have a technical background…or are you just a tech freak

I earned a degree in Mechanical engineering from Stevens/NJIT but own a small machine shop where I make low batch one-offs for various clientele

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What are you building bruh
briefcase-gun

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:shushing_face:********:zipper_mouth_face:

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