I have headphones from 2022 with medium and medium-low energy needs under €1000.
Right now I have the Sonata hd pro (120mw into 32 ohms) and the ifi hip dac (+400mw Balanced into 32 ohms).
It goes without saying that with any headset I need more volume than half the ifi hip dac wheel gives me for the balanced one and for the 3.5mm one I can with all the iems also at less than half.
Will I notice an improvement in my sound if I value, for example, the ifi Griphoon?
Being honest as you say. When I fell into this hobby/obsession I doubted many things but have since learned differently. I started with a SMSL Su8 Dac and a magni 3 amp. I thought I was rockin with the big boys so to speak but after hanging out here and a few other spots I kept hearing things like “As you step up so does the quality”. I kind of relate to vehicles. A beat up old Volkswagen will get you A to B but step up to a Porsche and you are going to get there faster and enjoy it more. I stepped up to a Schiit Bifrost 2 and a Schiit Asgard 3 and noticed literally a night and day difference in what I heard, what I felt and what I enjoyed in every conceivable way. I have of course moved up from there but I still retain that system on a different setup. Of course only you will be able to decide when and at what point you are happy and cannot let another influence what YOU enjoy. There is a reason there are many different products as we all hear differently. Many here will agree with this statement. There is a little something called synergy as well which is putting certain parts with certain parts to get a match. This is of course in lay man’s terms but is critically important in order to get the best out of what you have or what you are trying to achieve. Patience is also key here. Others will chime in and they may have more experience than myself but generally will repeat this same thing. Budget is penultimate in your decisions as well. If you pause and listen to what you are hearing with what you like it helps as well. You can easily spend a LOT of money here at the pit and STILL not get what you want if you are not patient. Research and friends with similar interests helps a lot. I can only relay my experience which is still very limited but I enjoy what I currently have. Just my 3 cents as they say.
very diminishing returns if you don’t need more power that higher end amps generally have but yes there can be small improvements/changes.
I still keep a IFI Zen Dac on my desk even having a $1000 stack and a $1000 AIO Dac/Amp.
Unless you plan on getting $1000+ headphones I don’t think it’s worth it.
Keeping in mind that everyone’s ears are different, and so is everyone’s level of experience, asking whether or not you will notice a difference is difficult to ascertain. There are people who say that they 100% cannot tell any difference between DACs once they are “good enough”. On the other hand, there are also people in the hobby that state they can hear differences by simply switching cables. Not my job, nor do I want to try to influence you one way or the other. Do I notice a clear difference between DACs and amps? Yes. So do quite a lot of other people. But the only way to know for certain whether or not you will is to bite the bullet and try them yourself. And if you do decide to, don’t immediately try to A/B them. Listen to the new one. Let yourself acclimate to it for a week or two, and then go back to what you currently have.
Probably not the answer that you were looking for, but it’s the best I’ve got, lol.
I personally have never been able to ascertain an audible difference between DACs or amps (provided that they are competently engineered and/or suitably able to drive the necessary transducers), but I’ve never done a lot of A/B or proper blind testing. I remain source agnostic, but I won’t decry those that do feel they can experience a difference. That said, I tend to go overboard on headroom (both power and formats) even though I almost exclusively listen to things single-ended and 16/44.1hz. Unless you find that you demo something that blows your mind somehow, psychosomatic or otherwise, I wouldn’t worry about it with the setup you’ve already got.
Not today. I’d rather have two good headphones with different signatures under €1000 than a single €1500 headphone. Same with iems.
Among other things because the world is evolving fast, especially in iems… I think that in two years they will finish with the headphones if they continue progressing this way.
Thanks for being honest.
This has been my experience as well. I have yet to step up from the Bifrost 2, however, and may never do it. If anything, I would like to experience an honest discrete R2R DAC and see what it brings to the show, but the price of that unit will NOT exceed 1500 bucks. As a man who has other interests besides audio, as well as severely compromised hearing, I had to establish practical limits. I happen to think that after a certain level, given the diminishing returns formula, the whole thing becomes a joke anyway.
But yeah, that first jump from SU-8 to Bifrost was an eye opener. And I know there is even more to be had after the Bifrost, but until I can actually hear something from that next tier, not a penny more will be spent on a DAC. Since the chances of that happening are pretty much slim to none, I’ll be happy with the Frost.
Hm for me there are differences but for normal listening they aren’t as big as many say, you’ll have to active listen to your music to hear the really big changes and I personally can’t do that for that long before those details get mushy
The biggest differences I can hear if I hear gear a week or longer and than switch it, that gives me the wow effect and tells me how much your gear did improve but if you listen while working or so it gets hard to hear the difference between a 200$ and a 700$ for me
All in all did I regret the upgrade to the bf2, no but for me the jump upwards isn’t worth it because of my use case
Amp wise for me the differences are bigger but because I have many high impedance HP we are speaking between a g111 and a crack, so if I can’t hear those differences a hd 598 from a dongle DAC would be all I need 
I still use the BF2 on my simrig and “It aint goin nowhere!” as they say… I stepped up to a Denafrips Pontus 2 for 1700 bucks. Great Dac that I enjoy very much.
I have an Edition xs, Sv023 and from iems the Mangird Top, Ikko Oh5 and the Raptgo Hook.
Will I find a difference between the Gryphon and the Hip dac?
I recommend you look at the Gustard R26 when the time comes. I tried a ton of R2R DACs recently when rebuilding my rig and it is the single most impressive R2R box I heard around that $1500 mark. It retails for $1650 I think, but I got mine on sale for $1499 and you can get them used between $1100 and $1300 regularly. VERY ímpressive ability to render space in particular.
Funny you mentioned the R26. Along with the Pontus (good call and congratulations @Jetman ), I have been looking at that one for the last few days. It’s $1,650 on Amazon (believe it or not!). If I felt strong enough about it, I could do that. Then the Frost can go into the bedroom system. Not that the M200 hasn’t been doing a fine job, it really has. That AKM chip is pretty sweet. But hey, it’s the Frost!
Guess I better start saving money…
Which actually brings up a bigger question! I have been in analysis paralysis over whether I should get a better DAC or a better headphone amp first. I am honestly split right down the middle.
What amps and DACs are you running right now and are we talking about working within the same ~$1500 budget for an amp upgrade?
I’ll try to be brief so as not to hijack the thread. This would be an exercise in consolidation. I have 4 different headamps on the desk right now!
I use them all and in different combinations, and everything is interconnected, so the versatility is nice. Ultimately, the goal is to pare this down to 2 really good amps, one solid state and one tube. And yeah, I’d like it to stay in that 1500 - 1800 dollar range.
Over Bluetooth I don’t think you’ll have much luck and even with the cable connection it’s still only a portable device with nearly the same akm chip and a small power circuit, would say you’ll have more luck with the signature series because the gryphon has it’s cost more because of its features than it’s sound
Think there will be a difference but you’ll have to search for it