🔶 Beyerdynamic T1 Gen2

[Falenkor]

I can actually completely agree with this statement. +1.Competitive 1990 wins due to A pads having less bass and aggressive and forward in sound letting you really crunch down on those sounds so games like Tarkov it really shines… T1 is just a fantastic all rounder for gaming in general if you ask me I use it all the time.

As for the 880 and 1990? They are similar if 1990 has A pads on… but 1990 has more body and fullness to its sound… bit more detail… more opened up and has more soundstage. 1990 can switch between being like an upgraded 880 to a less recessed in the mids 990 without the insane sharpness behind it by using B pads… T1 is definitely somewhere in the middle there with its pads.

[Kierkegaard]

A pair of used T1 v1’s arrived today. I got them through Uk Audiomart. I’ve been listening today for a few hours and its a mixed bag for me up until now. I don’t know if it’s the pair I received (apparently a later edition of the v1 before the v2 came out, and in very good condition) or just the way they all are. The soundstage is wide and immersive. It’s fun without being coldly analytical, but it is still super detailed.
I’ve been listening on a Feliks Audio Espressivo mk1 tube amp and a Lake People G109. In both cases its a little bright, which I expected, although I thought the tubes would have tuned down the treble a little.

The problem for me is that often vocals - especially female vocals - get really shouty and grainy very easily. I find it unacceptable, it’s really grating. but I don’t know if this is something others have experienced and then modded with padding or something, or if its just a bad copy that I’ve picked up.

I would appreciate any help on this, thanks

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

or if its just a bad copy that I’ve picked up.

The v1 is like that, the v2 is more tamed and controlled, the v1 is def way more bright and colder leaning

[Kierkegaard]

Thank you. Is there a way to deal with it with EQ or adding padding or changing ear pads or something?

[M0N]

Hmmm you could, but generally that’s just going to be the trait of the headphone

[Kierkegaard]

Ok. I’ll give it more time. Everything else about it sounds great. I guess I can’t really understand those who say it’s a better version than the t1v2.
Are there certain genres that you know it excels with and others to generally avoid?
Thanks again for your view.

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

I guess I can’t really understand those who say it’s a better version than the t1v2.

It is more neutral and more analytical and some like that, but generally personally my preferences lie with the t1.2

@Kierkegaard

Are there certain genres that you know it excels with and others to generally avoid?

Generally I think it’s a good all rounder besides music that is very bright leaning or something super sibilant (although doesn’t take a genius to see that it’s not a good match lol). Although personally I don’t like overly aggressive tracks on there either as while fun they are more pushy for me

[Kierkegaard]

Ok, good to know thanks. I can adjust my expectations. I just expected it to be perfect I guess - not in terms of tonality or anything, that I think comes down to taste in the end - but in terms of cleanness. Perhaps it’s transmitting the weaknesses in the recordings themselves as I imagine they can only be as good as the recording gear, and also the quality of the source. I tend to use Spotify even though I tried Tidal for a while and even though I found it cleaner (listening with sundaras) I couldn’t justify the cost. But seeing as these T1’s are the first relatively high end or flagship headphone I’ve ever used maybe the rules concerning sourcing and amplification or more precise, more delicate. Could that be the case?

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

Perhaps it’s transmitting the weaknesses in the recordings themselves as I imagine they can only be as good as the recording gear, and also the quality of the source

It can be that yes, but it’s also pretty hard to deny the t1v1 can get out of control in the treble and upper mid-range

@Kierkegaard

But seeing as these T1’s are the first relatively high end or flagship headphone I’ve ever used maybe the rules concerning sourcing and amplification or more precise, more delicate. Could that be the case?

I mean imo you made a very good choice on the amp front so I wouldn’t worry about that, DAC wise you can get more performance than you would expect upgrading which might help with perceived grain imo. But overall if you are bothered by just the amount of treble and the headphones forwardness the source gear can only do so much

[Kierkegaard]

Ok, thanks for confirming the amp thing. At Feliks Audio they said that the T1 v1 pairs remarkably well with the Espressivo and when the upper mid range and treble aren’t firing on all cylinders the sound is beautiful. It also sounds great on the LakePeople G109. I see what you mean about the grain in the Audio -gd r2r11 (if that’s what you had in mind - [I’m amazed you remember these things]), I think it’s become more transparent with the T1’s and with my getting used to it. It seems to me to be more detailed and more transparent than with the ifi zen but it’s not as smooth, it’s actually a little coarse. With the sundaras and HD650’s it somehow got smoothed over. Either that or I just wasn’t attentive or accustomed enough to hear it yet.

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

At Feliks Audio they said that the T1 v1 pairs remarkably well with the Espressivo and when the upper mid range and treble aren’t firing on all cylinders the sound is beautiful.

Yes the Feliks is a solid pairing with the Beyer’s overall imo

@Kierkegaard

I think it’s become more transparent with the T1’s and with my getting used to it. It seems to me to be more detailed and more transparent than with the ifi zen but it’s not as smooth, it’s actually a little coarse

The audio gd is something you probably will noice with higher end gear, it can get unexpectedly peaky and uncomfortable to listen to from my experience, although it works fine for most of the mid-range stuff

[Kierkegaard]

I f you don’t mind me asking, what DACs, besides the Soekris (Soekrii?) pair well with the espressivo and the T1’s. I might end up selling the Audio-gd for something smoother, and my first choice is Soekris but I can’t find any for sale even used.

[M0N]

The soekris probably isn’t what you are looking for actually, it’s a brighter more analytical dac, and while good, I don’t think it goes well with the Feliks imo. Generally in that price range, I like the bifrost 2 or ares ii, the bifrost 2 for neutral warm, with a bit of smoothness and extra width, very nice timbre, imo would work well with the Feliks. The ares ii would make the Feliks a bit more energetic and punchy while remaining a bit warmer, a bit less width but more depth to the stage. Imo both are equally detailed but present in different ways (although the ares ii is a bit faster). If you want something very smooth, something like a mhdt orchid is a pretty easy-going dac, warmer, thick, smooth, generally pleasant imo. And going a bit higher the Holo cyan is real nice for something resolving without fatigue, a bit of a step up from the aforementioned options (but also in price lol). If you look used you can probably find some good deals on older more totl dacs, but it would depend on what’s out there

[Kierkegaard]

fantastic. Thanks a lot. I think you’ve nailed more or less what I’m looking for. Also thanks for the note about the Soekris. I had it down as a no brainer and I’ve never heard any opinion to the contrary.

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

I had it down as a no brainer and I’ve never heard any opinion to the contrary.

It is a good dac, but it’s sensitive to amp pairing, and not everyone is after a more neutral analytical ish dac

[Kierkegaard]

@M0N

older more totl dacs

Could you roll out a list of a few of these when you have the time? (unless you refer to the ones you’ve already mentioned)

[Kierkegaard]

@MON never mind, I just found this post, I assume these are the one’s you would have been referring to…

@M0N

The RME ADI 2 dac is a great option and stacks nicely with the 789. Sounds great and lots of features.

The GUNGNIR multibit is a nice multibit dac in that price range as well

If you really want that super level of performance, the iFi Pro iDSD sounds excellent and has some very interesting features.

I also thought the chord qutest is definitely good, but lacking too many features for me to recommend tbh.

The Holo Audio Spring v2 Level 2 is also a really nice sounding r2r.

There are higher up dacs I believe sound excellent, but they’re at a level that you would only notice a difference with a 100,000 system

Edit: I don’t really think you would need 2 dacs, but there really isn’t a definitive answer if Delta sigma or r2r is “better” since it’s all about sound. I feel that r2r and multibit dacs are usually more colored because of the way they are implemented. But then again something like the iFi also has its own unique sound signature, so if you have the chance, perhaps try some of these out (or buy somewhere that has free returns), see what you like, and stick with it. The RME and iFi (and even the Holo dac I think) have lots of options like filters, buffers, and eq and dsp, so you could always tune a sound to your liking

[M0N]

Ok so that’s an old post, and personally my thoughts regarding dacs have drastically changed since then lol, this was before I really went into the deep end of dacs in my own setups for headphones

@M0N

The RME ADI 2 dac is a great option and stacks nicely with the 789. Sounds great and lots of features.

The adi 2 is nice if you will actually use all the features it has to offer, but otherwise imo I might prefer other dacs in the range for the price, neutral and capable but nothing really mind blowing or anything

@M0N

The GUNGNIR multibit is a nice multibit dac in that price range as well

The gumby is still a solid dac, but personally only something I would recommend if you can get a nice used one under 600ish, as I think the bifrost 2 offers more for the money (and an actually good single ended output as well that’s better than the gumby), warmer smoother neutral, slightly relaxed but capable

@M0N

If you really want that super level of performance, the iFi Pro iDSD sounds excellent and has some very interesting features.

The ifi pro idsd is a nice dac, although at new price, I really can’t recommend it as I think there are other dacs in that range that outperform it, but used around the 1.3k range it would make sense if you wanted a warmer more thick and forward sound that’s pretty energetic

@M0N

I also thought the chord qutest is definitely good, but lacking too many features for me to recommend tbh.

The chord is indeed a solid dac but it’s kinda not got much going for it at MSRP, but if you find a good deal on one used, it’s a pretty neutral and revealing dac that’s pretty refined

@M0N

The Holo Audio Spring v2 Level 2 is also a really nice sounding r2r.

The spring 2 level 2 or kte is still something I really like for the price, very solid

@M0N

There are higher up dacs I believe sound excellent, but they’re at a level that you would only notice a difference with a 100,000 system

The thing I said about the higher end dacs is actually pretty false from my experience now lol, it’s easily worthwhile but you have to make sure you get synergy right. I’ve always been around higher end dacs and demoed many of them, but never really decided to use them in headphone setups, I was too obsessed with the headphones/speakers themselves for the longest time, but clearly that isn’t the case now lol

@M0N

Edit: I don’t really think you would need 2 dacs,

I would disagree today now lol

@M0N

but there really isn’t a definitive answer if Delta sigma or r2r is “better” since it’s all about sound.

This one is still something I would agree with

@M0N

I feel that r2r and multibit dacs are usually more colored because of the way they are implemented.

This is a yes and no for me, in the end there are analytical, neutral, and colored r2r, as is there for sigma delta, so it depends

@M0N

But then again something like the iFi also has its own unique sound signature,

I don’t know if it’s super unique tbh but they do have a house sound lol

[Kierkegaard]

Thanks!

@M0N

Ok so that’s an old post, and personally my thoughts regarding dacs have drastically changed since then lol, this was before I really went into the deep end of dacs in my own setups

Reminds me of St. Augustine’s Retractiones at the end of his life, when he revised errors of judgment in his youthful writings.

@M0N

The spring 2 level 2 or kte is still something I really like for the price, very solid

this is the one that’s been attracting my attention a lot - out of my range new, but if I can find it used I might go for it after selling off other stuff to fund it.

@M0N

I think the bifrost 2 offers more for the money (and an actually good single ended output as well that’s better than the gumby), warmer smoother neutral, slightly relaxed but capable

I like what I hear of the Bifrost 2 gen 5 too (difficult to find here though)

@M0N

The thing I said about the higher end dacs is actually pretty false from my experience now lol, it’s easily worthwhile but you have to make sure you get synergy right. I’ve always been around higher end dacs and demoed many of them, but never really decided to pull the trigger on one for myself, I was too obsessed with the headphones/speakers themselves for the longest time, but clearly that isn’t the case now lol

Lol - how would you rate the order of importance in upgrading? Would it still be Headphones then Amps then Dacs then Source?

[M0N]

@Kierkegaard

this is the one that’s been attracting my attention a lot - out of my range new, but if I can find it used I might go for it after selling off other stuff to fund it.

The closest thing you can get to that would be a Holo cyan

@Kierkegaard

Lol - how would you rate the order of importance in upgrading? Would it still be Headphones then Amps then Dacs then Source?

So this one really depends. Let’s assume you have a flagship or near flagship headphone you really like and don’t want to change from. Generally with a budget of 2k for your source gear, I would be spending about 50-65% on your amp and the rest on the dac. But with a budget of 5k, I might actually say spending more on the dac (like a 2k amp and 3k DAC is very reasonable), and the higher you go generally I would spend more on the dac. I think in the real high end the dac starts to matter more than the amp, were in the lower end the amp is going to make a bigger difference.

With more mid-range or entry high end headphones this would change and things would depend. I mean things depend anyways lol, synergy is extremely important the higher you go up, and yada yada