I’d probably place the Ares II / BF2 as between 1321 and 1421. 1421 is more at the level of Schiit Gungir (but also from the point of view of building a system the synergy is really great with Vio amps)
this was well over 7 years ago, though. A lot has changed since then. The 220 or 280 (not the 281, he doesn’t need preamp function) would a great choice if you can find them under the cost of the flux
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The ares was denafrips answer to the growing number of cheap delta signma dacs flooding the market, its a good $300-400 less than what it should cost. I cant say that for soekris stuff, as they have not been updated in a while. Though, they have said there is a new version of the 1521 coming at some point, so that would be worth a listen.
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Gotcha. I know the 2541 comes out in place of 1541 and 1221 at some point in place of 1321, haven’t heard of a 1421 update yet though. At least to my ears the Ares II is still at the level of Bifrost 2 so personally I’d have thought it’s at the 7-800USD price mark (new) and 5-600USD (used)
the bifrost 2 is now awfully close to the gungir mulibit, but at the same price as the old one. I mean, its uses a lot of the same circuity. If it was to scale in the same way as schiits other product line, it would cost at least $900, the same is true with the ares. Because smsl and topping have made such large swings at the midfi dac segment since 2016, these new models had to be priced more accordingly, so both perform way ahead of a d90 or m400 for less than those.
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I’ve seen many comparisons between the bifrost 2 and the ares but couldn’t get to a definite conclusion…
Most say the ares is great but some say it lacks detail and too warm. The FA-22 should also be a bit warm so I hope it won’t be too much… But I think I saw somewhere that @M0N says they are a good match.
I also keep toying with a burson soloist+composer combo cause I read somewhere burson’s stuff sound great with Diana, but couldn’t find other places that talked about it.
one thing to note is you need to run it in oversampling mode. It runs in NOS by default, and that sounds much worse. I found the ares to be very neutral and unobstructive, but not like the delta sigma dacs around that price point that adds a bit too much negative feedback making everything sound too sharp (im exaggerating, but the presentation is on the forward side of neutral). The bifrost is very dynamic and punchy sounding, but is also more coloured, which comes down to personal preference. The thing is, I doubt you would be able to hear any of these differences at the moment since you dont have much experience. I personally think they are better value propositions than some of the cheaper dacs on the market, because they actually give you the characteristics of what significantly more expensive dacs can offer, while the cheaper sigma dacs sound what you expect at the price point. Knowing the difference just comes with time, so i think its a better investment.
Probably preference? I’ve seen most people here preferring the NOS, including myself though.
im talking about r2r dacs. Are you specifically referring to them and the ares? Delta sigma dacs are irrelevant in this discussion.
Referring to Ares II specifically
There is a channel that i trust a lot when it comes to making audio reviews called the British audiophile, and he said oversampling was unequivocally the better sounding mode. Denafrips Ares II DAC Review - YouTube My findings match his. It’s no contest, no idea what you are on about.
Just saying it’s a preference thing, some prefer NOS some prefer OS, not a fact which is better.
I agree. The oversampling mode was a noticeable improvement with the ares.
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What did you hear in the nos version that was an improvement? Remember, reducing the soundstage can lead to things sounding more intimate which is personal preference, but it could instead lead to things sounding more congested, which is (pretty definitely) worse. I think you need to listen to resolve over at the headphone show, when he said “there are lots of preferences for sound that are equally valid, but it isn’t unreasonable to say that there are definitively good and bad implementations of those types of sound, that can be judged regardless of your own preference”.
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Can we not derail the thread further into what makes one filter better than the other? If you want to continue that, there’s the official thread.
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yes, sorry.
i meant implementations, my bad.
Like Kron said if you want to discuss this there’s an official thread for it.
EDIT: I have now initiated a discussion here 🔷 Denafrips Ares II - #182 by mochimashu
I beg to differ, that’s one way to look at it and probably overly simplistic. Reducing soundstage could also lead to more accurate imaging and it doesn’t always lead to a more congested soundstage. There are large soundstage but with intimate and forward presentation of sound, and small soundstage but more laid back presentation of sound. I don’t think it’s helpful to make generalised statements like this.
EDIT: as @mynameistoolongforth clarifies below the soundstage is merely an example and does not refer specifically to the Ares II, so apologies the misunderstanding on my part. As I stated in that thread, I do prefer and feel the NOS is a better implementation of various audio qualities and I never intended to dispute that some prefer the OS, so my response was simply that I don’t disagree that there are better implementations but in the case of Ares II I don’t personally find the OS is a better one.
I don’t know if I need to listen to anyone. Whilst the statement you quoted is not wrong, I still see it fundamentally as a preference. If you prefer larger soundstage and dislike a more congested sound then sth can be better or worse for you. If I don’t mind a smaller stage but I want a more accurate imaging then sth also can be better or worse for me. And you don’t know which camp OP or anyone belongs to so all I was saying is that it’s not helpful to state something as if a matter of fact. I don’t think anyone in this hobby (and certainly not reviewers) knows better than anyone to be able to speak the truth or fact.
EDIT: Perhaps it was also my misunderstanding too which I can only apologise for, I did not intend to dispute what implementation is better on the Ares II but simply wanted to point out there are people who prefer or feel either the OS or NOS is a better implementation, hence it is more helpful for the community to make it clear that this is a subjective preference and not an objective fact (as to which is better) and preferences and opinions are equally valid which I have repeated a few times in this thread.
But, let’s not derail the thread further and my point has been made clear: a preference is not a fact and this does not change whoever or how many reviewers you quote because, frankly, I don’t give a shit about them.
EDIT: apologies if I have misunderstood the intention of those who have quoted words/videos of other reviews and my language used, my point was simply that I do not personally think that reviewers’ opinions automatically carry some (and certainly not more) force.
no, you didn’t understand. It is about implementation. That’s why I said “could”. It was merely an example. You completely missed the point entirely and tried to counter it with fallacious citations of what it said like “preference is not a fact” being a counter to what i said, when that actually contradicts nothing I said.
The point i am making is there is a right way to have a small soundstage and a wrong way. What I am NOT saying is anything with a small soundstage (without any analysis of its execution) is bad or even in any way inferior, that’s a preference.