edit: designed to play to 32 ohms
edit2: you can also try a tube preamp as well to alter the sound of your current amps
I came very close to buying this previously, but I settled on a MAD amp. I don’t want to drop another grand (in Canuck bucks) on a maybe. I have spoken to other owners that had the same reaction to this amp that I had to the MAD amp: “Nice amp but I moved it along after a few months”.
The pre-amp thing may be the way I go.
I am really tempted to try the XDuoo MT-604. I will have to adjust for the volume of course, but it sounds kind of like what I am looking for and it is cheap. And I can even send it back to Amazon if I am not impressed.
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Preamps.
Hmmmmm.
In the beginning these pre amps were and still are to amplify low AC signals coming from low output voltage devices like a “record cartridge”…millivolts and most amps had to have a higher input voltage to drive them…and there was and still is an impedance matching concern between a pre amp and an amp. This is for efficient and maximum power transfer acros the frequencies.
So it was a pre amp to an amp to a transducer…all analog. Voila music at the transducer.
Many head amps have pre-amp outputs. Why?
To drive other devices. But what other devices? And what are the ramifications?
The present day dacs have an output that matches most amps and dont need any pre-amplification to drive them to their design limits. Some have fixed and variable outputs to match the downstream amp.
So adding a preamp to a good working dac to amp is well, adding stuff to the chain…which may not be the best thing to do.
Say take the preamp out from a Schiit Asgard 3 into a Schiit Jotenheim 3 then its pre-amp outs to another amp…what happens is your adding lots of stuff to the chain and yes it can have an affect on the output…the potential to added noise etc…
Most pre-amp outs are there to drive other devices like powered speakers (for convenience) and the pre-amps in these relatively low cost amps arent the best quality. YMMV.
But lots of folks just plug stuff in and see what happens without really understanding the +/- 's…
Its relatively safe but the results are all over the map…lots of oh yeah its tons better…again YMMV.
The only pre-amp that I have used recently is in my PassLabs HPA-1 which has a really world class pre-amp and I use it to drive a speaker amp. What its really designed for. Makes sense IMO.
Enjoy!
Alex
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Yes, I have never used a pre-amp out ever. Just exploring all options.
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I have done this several times but it most often doesnt make the sound any better and hides or morphs what the original amp was designed to do etc…
So many things…
When you have pre-amped, does the pre-amp control the volume of the end amp?
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When I used the pre-out of the HPA-1 the volume on the HPA-1 controls the amplitude of the sound from the speaker amp.
If you pre-amp from an amp that has a vol pot into another amp with a vol pot then both could control the amplitude.
It depends on the design of the stuff.
With my iFi iDSD dac I connect to the iFi iCan amp with balanced and se cables…the volume pot on the dac and the vol pot on the amp can change the amplitude…(only with using the variable out of the dac).
If the output of the dac’s pre is too hot and the gain of the amp is also such then the vol position on the amp might not be able to get out of the low end area…in my case I find this and I use the variable output to control the drive out of the dac so the amp is not over-driven.
You have to look at each amp and see how their pre-amp out levels are controlled…
Such fun!
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I just had someone point me to the manual and see how to do it with Violectric V220. There are two ways to “line out” and I can choose the variable option to control the volume. I am sure iFi probably has the same option. It would be interesting to compare both. However since Violectric has negative gain options (-6 Db’s and -12 Db’s), it might be the ideal partner for what I have in mind.
I will have to dig into the iFi.
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your ifi has tons of power on reserve too but you cant get it all at lower gain and volume so you might be able to crank that behemoth up and control volume with your v220 and get decent results with your he6. i have no experience with vioelectric stuff as a preamp though but i would assume it’s awesome though.
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Actually it didn’t have enough for power for my HE6se V2’s at all, even in high gain. I would be using the pre-amp option to reduce volume on an amp that has a lot of gain, like the Liquid Platinum (Xduoo MT-604).
I select the variable output of the iFi iDSD dac from the back panel selector.
There is no pre-amp out here just the output of the dac.
If I use the fixed and use the iFi iCAN amp the volume control on the amp hardly gets over 9 oclock…and I want the vol to be more around half way or 12 olock. I use 60 to 420 ohms cans even with the 420 ohm cans i still need to use the variable out in my case.
I run the iFi dac at about 10 oclock and the amp is then around 12 noon for a decent loudness.
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No because the amp was designed to have a varying output to drive headphones etc.
Its only the devices providing inputs to such a device that might have this variable feature.
In an amp the way you can control to some degree the amplitude is via “gain” circuitry.
Quite different the pre-amp designs.
Also pre-amps were designed to accept many inputs from differing or similar devices. A nice selector function, what to play today? My reel to reel tape deck, my cassette deck, tuner, turntable etc…This is usually where the volume control resides for more “normal” 2 ch setups.
Not sure I get you. My Vio can do output via XLR as fixed or variable. So, are you saying that the iFi can only output, via XLR, as fixed and there is no option for variable output?
I dont use the outputs of the iCan amp, but the manual states:
Seems to indicate that you can use it as a preamp OR a amp but not both…
So I think this would mean that the outputs of the amp would be variable via
the vol pot…
I did go through the manual, but I did not see that. It does make sense though. Using pre-amp out on the Bio means you are in line-out mode and cannot use the amp as a headphone amp.
I guess I won’t know exactly how the iFi operates until I try it.
Thanks for all the effort!
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I wanted to post about a reply I got from Garage1217. I had wrote explaining my situation. Here was his reply:
Hey Shane,
If your headphones have high sensitivity, you could use any of our designs and add in our -20dB adapter. This is the best combo for low impedance + high sensitivity.
Regards,
Jeremy Helms | Electron Plumber | Tube Wrangler
WWW.GARAGE1217.COM
I need to pick-up the power cord burn-in generator, for sure.
I did not know that about the 6080. This is a good point. And honestly something that could make me think harder about it. Many of the amps I have seen and have been looking at use tubes that frankly are quite expensive to replace. So, there is a bit more commitment to use a tube amp.
Using the TA-20 has been economical and fun, as 12AU7’s are not too hard to find and offer many options. And there are only 2 of them. I haven’t cracked it open so I can’t speak to the inside work, but the overall build quality appears to be very good. They say they use quality components, and the way this thing sounds, I tend to believe it. To my ear, this thing sounds excellent, hybrid or not.
As to your question, if I am understanding it correctly, no, the DAC is upstream and not involved in preamplification. No volume control on the Bifrost, and volume control does not work on the TA-20 when using it as a pre. it’s more of a fixed output. But man, what it does to that THX amp, which has a volume control - simply amazing. Somehow these devices work very well together.
@Shane.
The point in the manual only refers to when you use the preamp output of the Ify.
This means that if you were to connect the preamp output from the IFY to the V280 analogue/XLR then you should not use the headphone jack.
The reason for this is quite simple, it can happen that the circuit is short-circuited because 2 circuits are coupled, so to speak.
This is usually the case with very inexpensive devices for reasons of cost.
High-quality devices are usually made in such a way that the other circuit is switched off.
The other side is that if you use the preamp output, e.g. from the Ify to the V280, you logically have to turn up the volume control.
If you also connect the headphones to the V280, it can happen that the headphones break down if the headphones are low ohmic.
Because the load is too high.
This is also the case with my hybrid amplifier. I was told that if I use the preamp output, I should not connect headphones because they could break.
The warning is of course cheaper than making the circuit only have one circuit available at a time.
This is similar to having an amplifier that has a Se and Xlr connection, you should only load one connection at a time, not two.
Yes that is important to consider before buying the amp.
I unfortunately overlooked this when I bought the Feliks Euforia and was a bit annoyed because I only noticed it when I was looking for tubes.
The other side is that the Nos market can be very rude, especially when you consider that the tubes used to cost 3-15$ depending on grade and quality.
That’s why custom building is my personal recommendation if you want a good tube amp, build it so it’s future proof.
This always sells very well afterwards.
You can have a look at what tubes are available in the new production and then decide which tube family you would like to have.
Of course, this must then be discussed with the builder whether it would be feasible.
As a rule, yes, but not always everything.
A big advantage is that both markets can be served, nos and new production.
As already mentioned, most manufacturers can often get hold of a tube family very cheaply and develop their circuit on it.
Little Dot, for example, did this in the early days, of course, all on a low-cost principle.
I had the same impression with the Little Dot at the time - visually wow, when it was defective and I opened it I saw what had been neglected in terms of quality.
This can be similar with the Xudoo, but it doesn’t have to be.
As long as it works, I would leave it as it is for now.
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