Yea, I can confirm it was the same for me. Somehow I forgot to mention it but I also felt that peak in the treble for female vocals and almost all of the music I am listening to is with female vocals. And in the beginning it was not pleasant at all for me. Also I saw a measurement of that peak in 12k and I had plans to EQ it (still have it) but still listening to the default EQ. Maybe my brain already adjusted to it and it doesnât bother me that much (also I was very picky in the first sessions). Still kind of fatiguing to me though.
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I think one of the things thatâs worth noting from Zeosâs experiments here is that âXBass doesnât do anythingâ. That to me is indicative that the Zen Can, balanced, can push the XS satisfactorily but the amp is at itâs limit because it canât drive the elevated bass.
I only have a vague understanding of how XBass works but I think this is a fair conclusion. Balanced Zen Can + XS = good fun.
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I was also thinking about how the he6v2 would compare since they are close in price when androma drops to the sale priceâŠ
I donât think they are more âlaid backâ or less fatiguing compared with the Ananda, most people are saying they are more forward, particularly in the lower mids. I got used to them but did find them more leaning towards fatiguing- but also possibly more detailed. Brighter, yes, I think so.
Resolveâs description of them and comparison with the Ananda rings broadly true to me.
Part of this maybe how these terms can be used somewhat loosely to reference different things, or
where people are comparing with other headphones.
The laid back I see people referencing is the Hifiman mid scoop, the 1-2.5kHz region; Hifiman are recessed here compared with Harman, other curves, and most other neutral headphones. Thatâs a thing on basically all Hifiman headphones and itâs there on both this and the Ananda.
Ctrl+Fing this thread, @Nr48 says the highs are laid back⊠relative to the HD800S, which is famous for its highs.
@ATK says the mids are laid back- like many Hifimans.
I donât think there ever was this consensus that the treble was laid back relative to the Ananda, or that they were laid back in general, compared with the Ananda.
I see, thanks for the input. If Iâm not mistaken the HD560S has a peak in that region between 4 and 6k, and I found that headphone mildly unpleasant.
@blorg Of course not everyone said they were laid back, that wasnât the right word probably, but until now I saw more people saying they were generally a little less fatiguing or âsmootherâ than Ananda compared to the contrary (on the web in general), but maybe itâs just a matter of where the peak is located.
They have boosted treble but all the way to like 12khz, most music doesnât even reach that high, itâs mostly just resonant tones and âairâ, other headphones will still be more fatiguing if theyâre boosted at around 5k to 10k where the actual treble stuff like cymbals and sibilance is
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Could you do a mini comparison between the two?
I own a Blon B20 with the perforated pads, which to my ears are more laid back and a little more bassy than the Aiva (bought from a guy who had both, so I had the chance to compare) but theyâre similar enough.
I really donât need another pair of headphones but I have a friend who is coming back from China later this month, so he could pick it up for me for cheap.
Thanks in advance.
I find the XS less peaky than the Ananda in general as well but it can still be fatiguing. I imagine a neutral analytical, detailed DAC/Amp set up might be too much
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I decided to share some experience which really drives me crazy. As many of you already mentioned with Zen Can probably those pairs canât show their potential. But all the different comments really confused me. So Zeos said they sound good on that amp as well.
I am still waiting for my balanced cables but I tested SE meanwhile:
I made a comparison between Zen Dac V1 and Zen Can. Many would agree that Zen Dac is not powerful enough for this pair (especially SE).
I really wanted to hear any difference so I invested about an hour at least comparing them. I matched the volume level so it is the same loudness on both and the max loudness that is comfortable for me. For me it is:
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around 10 on highest gain for Zen Can
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around 3 for Zen Dac (max is around 5)
Both with settings for natural sound (without enhanced bass).
Believe me I tried my best to find any difference. This includes different instruments on various tracks. I tried to pick something different whether in bass, mid or treble. I was even repeating the same 2-3-5 seconds of a track and constantly swiping dac with amp. At some moments I thought I hear something different like better soundstage, trying to convince myself it is better on the amp, however changing to the Dac it was the same.
I also compared the Bass and for me the Xbass (from Zen Can) is much better than the Truebass (from Zen Dac) specifically for XS. Truebass feels very boomy and not that pleasant. At the same time the Xbass really complements this headphone and feels like the best combination for me.
So what drives me crazy at the moment is that I feel this amp is almost useless for XS. Yea it can make them louder then the Dac, but the Dac is quite loud already. Having an amp just for the magic Xbass button⊠is it worth it?
Some would say it can be different in balanced. But in balanced I see only the Dac will benefit since it outputs 3 times more power. Seems like it would be the same power for Zen Can having low impedance headphones.
In conclusion:
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Does it mean that the lack of difference is because neither of the 2 can drive them properly but only pushes them loud enough (which doesnât mean they are driven properly)
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Maybe I am the one who doesnât pick any difference?
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I am starting to think that I need an amp with high current
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I think the bass boosts sound different because they are different, and from a quick Google they seem to be different in exactly the way you describe them, xBass on the Zen Can is very tight and limited to the sub-bass, while Truebass on the Zen Dac leaks far more into the mid-bass. This is nothing to do with the watts either is putting out, itâs the EQ applied.
Have a look at these graphs of the respective bass boosts from ASR, note they are different scale axis, but you can see xBass is up 12dB at 20, 5dB at 50, 2dB at 100, about 0.6dB at 200, 0.3dB at 300. It comes down very fast, and early. TrueBass is up 11dB at 20, 8dB at 50, 4dB at 100, 2dB at 200, 1dB at 300.
This is eyeballing, but they are clearly very different bass boosts, and one is sub-bass only, the other is far more present with a boost in the mid-bass as well. The one you think is boomy, is the one that stays up further into the mid-bass. This is exactly what youâd expect.
Edit: LaL on the ASR thread that second graph was posted agrees with you, TrueBass on the Dac is âtoo muchâ but xBass on the Can is âsubtleâ:
Yes, the True-Bass on the Zen-Dac really is to much for most music,
but the X-Bass on the Zen-Can Amp is so good with almost everything.
It just so subtle itâs perfect with Sundara and hd600.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ifi-zen-dac-and-headphone-amp-review.9885/page-26
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Has anyone used the XS with a Lyr 3 yet?
Thank you very much for the explanation. I got it now with those examples. When I use headphone calculator and put XSâ specs I got this result:
So if I read the measurements and this correctly it seems that I am not underpowering them. I donât see a bottleneck as to those graphs. Especially if we consider that I am not listening very loud.
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Here is a very good article about understanding power and amplifiers, its very comprehensive and covers basically everything
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If you donât currently hear any difference between the Zen DAC and the Zen Can, with the EQ off, itâs hard to see why youâd need or how youâd benefit from something with even more power. The bass differences with the EQ on are different EQ profiles, nothing to do with âunderpoweringâ. Some people are of the opinion you need ridiculous amounts of power for this, well beyond the level you actually listen at because⊠reasons.
You do need to consider headroom, peaks are higher than the average SPL, and if you are using EQ you need to add that boost as well. So the actual number for loudness/power you should be looking at would be quite a bit higher than indicated for the average SPL. I donât think something with a max power output of 6.42mW as suggested by that chart would be âenoughâ. But you donât necessarily need something with crazy amounts of power for these either.
If you get a balanced cable (I use OpenHeart and FAAEL, $10-15 from AliExpress, they also do 4.4) you will get 3x the power out of the Zen DAC. Also, are you powering the Zen DAC with USB or a discrete 5V power brick? I believe it will give you about 50% more power if you use the discrete power adapter rather than just using USB power.
On the Zen Can you seem get lower distortion on the balanced out, but no power increase. As @Kkk posted, it runs out of current with lower impedance headphones but it would be so loud at this point I donât think that would be a limiting factor. 3V / 500mW into 18 ohms @92dB/mW would be 119dB, and it looks like it even goes a little higher than that if you split the difference between the 16 and 20 ohms.
If you are using both Iâd also use a balanced cable between them. I donât know, but it is possible that this could also affect the ultimate power output, the balanced in would be double the voltage. Itâs probably also cleaner, iFi do recommend using it if you have the output on the DAC.
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if your running the Zen DAC v2 feeding balanced into the Zen CAN you can get upto 6.2v input signal.
I like the little ifi Zen stack, use it a lot but I just use it fixed and not in variable mode⊠Not the last word in power or detail but I enjoy the sound and love that XbassâŠ
Got one of those Openheart balanced cables also, good value⊠I make my own cables and even those cost me more lol.
I think thereâs a bit of FoMo going on, really any dedicated desktop amp is likely enough to enjoy the XS for a great many people. The Zen gear isnât the perfect match made in haven for low impedance cans (when coupled also with lightly inefficient drivers) but itâs not like itâs a horrid sound or your missing out on that much.
Each to their own but I enjoy the XS on all my gear but I like the little Zen stack and my hybrid tube amp the most so far.
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Yea, thatâs exactly what happened to me 
As to the cables Iâve ordered from AliExpress right after placing the order for my XS. I expected them to come a few days ago but there is still some delay. One of them is balanced cable to connect Zen DAC to Zen Can, and one is balanced for the headphones.
Yes, exactly. I will definitely share my experience once I got the cables.
And thank you both for helping me fight my FoMo : ) I think I can get calm now : )
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Your on the right track my friend, going balanced between dac and amp is a very worthwhile improvement and will allow you to extract the most/best of the iFi Zen stack/headphone/s.
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wondering if anyone has compared the XS vs Focal clears⊠Iâll probably end up selling most of my headphones once I save up enough for one of those
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I had the XS and compared them with the Clear Mg, so not the OG Clear but fairly close.
I said a few weeks ago that I didnât think it was a fair comparison because the Clear Mg is $1500 MSRP vs. $500 for the XS, but the XS punches high above its price point but doesnât outshine the Clear Mg for me, nor would I expect it to.
The XS has a larger soundstage (although soundstage isnât as important to me) and I noted how much acoustic guitar sounded crisp and delightful. Ultimately the XS didnât do anything offensive to my ears but lacked the low end punch the Clears are known for.
I ended up returning them but they are still an easy recommendation assuming you can live with the build quality and drive them properly.
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