How good are Pass Labs products?

Equipment / Electronics / Gear / Accessories Speaker Amps
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I’ve been reading hifi magazines/websites for years and have never really given certain brands all that much thought. I knew about bryston, because that’s THE big canadian amp company that sells in stores. But Pass Labs is different, because of their lack of presence in stores up here, they’ve never really held much presence in my head beyond EXPENSIVE.

Has anyone here had any experience with Pass labs or their daughter/spinoff First watt? What their sound signature is like? Is their stuff as exemplary as a lot of reviewers say?

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I have not heard, but there are diy clone plans for first watt amps. They are supposed to be hella good. To diy is like 600$ or more in parts.

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I find the stuff fascinating but Pass Labs and first watts low wattage amps are always a question for me because it’s rather difficult finding high sensitivity speakers that are bookshelves.

I have been looking at their 150 watt AB amp though but it is waaaay too expensive

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Waaaaaay waaaaaay, wayyyyyyy too expensive for me.

And if you’re putting more into your speakers than your amp, then…

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Yeah. I definitely wish I could find resources on navigating the whole power amp thing in the 3-5000 range as that’s my current budget I’ve set aside for myself.

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Next best thing and zero fedility have lots of videos in that price range. Might be worth checking out.

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So, I’ve been looking through their stuff but I’m having trouble getting a sense of whether the amps they review will fit every genre of music it listen to (which is basically everything save really corny country music)

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pay attention more to what they say are the best parts, ie mids or treble or bass ect. You will have to do a little deductive reasoning. You can also ask on their respective channels. they are pretty good at answering questions. next best thing tends to listen to more modern, electronic heavy music. zero fidelity tends to listen to more well recorded material. I am sure M0N can steer you in the right direction as well. also @German_Power and @Nick_Mimi i believe have experience in that price range as well. I didn’t tag M0N because i have not seen him a lot lately and presume hes busy with work. he will see this thread eventually i imagine.

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Best I can speak to is an Adcom GFA-555ii I purchased to power my HiFiman HE6se headphones. Mine was built around 1991 i think. It does an exceptional job with my HE6se’s and once in a while when i run it as a speaker amp does a truly capable job of powering my Monoprice K-Bas speakers and they sound as if they cost many times more than their retail price. I state all this because you mentioned Nelson Pass amplifiers. This amp was built upon one of his original designs and I would assume an actual Nelson Pass or Pass labs unit would sound even better. This amp is good but nothing spectacular according to all the reading material and reviews etc. Thus again my assumption would be that you would get excellent quality but at this price range you are really paying for that extra 10-20% which to high end audiophiles means make or break in the fine details. Good luck in your search, I hope this little bit of extra knowledge helps, I can answer specific questions if you like.
Nick

http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/adcom-gfa-555ii-

http://www.adpslab.com/en/audio/upgrades/10-adcom-gfa-555-mkii

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My hands on experience is limited to German and English products. But I have heard many other manufacturers, just not necessarily experimented with the devices.

I heard Pass Labs on audio shows many times, but I never was impressed and therefore listened to them for long. This is not necessarily due to the amplifier, but rather to the used speakers and poor setup.

@PABastien
I understand you can’t decide which kind of amp you want to buy. But it would be more effective if you would involve us in your decision process a little more and gatherd everything under one topic.
We already had: 4 Watt Decware tube amps, Bryston, Denafrips, Schiit etc. basicly a lot of different approaches.

Poweramps depend a lot on the speakers, the preamp and your personal preferences and you can therefore not generalize whether a product is good or bad.

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This is all true. You’re right
The speakers in question I’ve set my sights on are the triangle signature thetas
I’ve been looking into different amps trying to figure out what they’d pair well with.
So I’ve been looking at different brands trying to figure that out. I’ve been looking at chord amps as well since they would pair well with my chord dac

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Have you ever heard the speakers in person?
Otherwise I would advise you to find out first if the speakers meet your taste.
I’ve heard them twice at a show and would describe them as very audiophile sounding and like many very efficient designs they need some volume to develop body.

Actually, amplifiers with at least 100 watt in 8 ohms are more my cup of tea, but this is also related to the speakers I like. With tube amplifiers you have to turn to someone else. Recently I listened to some tube power amplifiers for the living room but I just liked the clarity of my transistors better. But tubes have a lot of good characteristics in the preamp.

What is your amplifier budget? Below 4k I would always go for an integrated, but even with a higher budget there are good reasons for that.
A NAGRA Classic INT is probably a bit over the top.
The Sugden IA-4 would be an interesting partner.
Personally I would probably try a Luxman L-590-AXII.
I like Accuphase too, but the Luxmanns simply have this wonderful subtle darkness.

I’m a big fan of a lot of power and also Bryston, but the Triangle could use a little sweet Class A sound quite well.
The Chord CPM 2650 is an excellent amplifier, but the very high Class B part makes it more suitable for inefficient speakers. The Chord should also be warmed up for at least an hour.

You should definitely add some bi-wiring cables to eliminate the terrible bridges.

On the other hand, you could also buy the speakers and, for example, a Rega Elex-R to find out whether you like the speakers in the long run. If it’s your first speaker in this price range, you may need to experiment a bit more.

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Chord cpms are a bit hard to come by from looking around. I have access to the new chord ultimas and if I save up a but more I can afford the ultima 6 which is 180 watts a channel.
I also have access to the brystons. Which I’m still considering. As they can be roughly in the same price range as the ultimas.
I can use my chord hugo tt2 as a preamp as well

I do want to listen to the thetas. I’ve heard them only once and I liked what I heard but I’m open to other speaker suggestions. My time table for these purchases was originally going to be August after spending June and July doing demoing but obviously that’s not really possible with the current situation going on

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And addendum to the previous post. I’ve actually become unsure of what I’ve want actually in terms of speakers.
The thetas sounded good to me at first glance as an all rounder for many genres including movies but now I dont know. I’m also considering space issues because it’s for a desk set up and they might be too big
So I’ve been looking to other front ported speakers such as the voxativ Hagen.
I’m sorry if I sound utterly noncommittal right now.

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Hmm, so it’s supposed to be a kind of ultimate desk setup?
Can you make a drawing of the room and the furniture? Can be handwritten.

With front port or closed design you might have it a bit easier but a few bass traps are probably mandatory.

With desk speakers it would be very important to me to have a good sound at low volume and a wide sound dispersion pattern. Especially on audio shows these characteristics are rarely evident.

Have you ever heard BBC Monitors?
LS3/5 are simply ingenious if they are well integrated with a SUB 3.

Edit.:
Let’s do this right. First, we need to narrow down the speakers.
What kind of music do you listen to?
Which sound signature do you like?
How important is the bass? And how sensitive are you to aggressive tweeters?
What are you focusing on? (timber, neurtality, stage, impact, speed and so on)
Which speakers have you heard or owned and what did you like or dislike about them?

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It’s 6 foot desk with 32 inch computer monitors up against a wall. It will be for a personal use rig but also for filmmaking work (storyboarding, ediiting, color grading). With stands I can get at most a foot away from the wall.

I don’t know how much room for I have for bass traps but the desk is flanked by 2 full bookshelves. But I’ll look into it.

I have been looking into BBC monitors but they’re becoming scarce atm due to Covid. I was looking at Harbeth ps3evrs (?) 40th anniversary but they havent been restocked.
I’ve been looking into Rel subwoofers.

Music: Everything outside of stereotypical country music. I have no preference. But have been currently listening to a lot of vocalists, particularily Angel Olsen and Nick Cave.
This also extends to Movies. There isn’t a particular genre I specifically watch, but clean vocals are a must (need to watch them for research so this will probably need to be a focus).

Sound Signature. Detailed, natural, maybe a touch of warmth. Lots of separation (I think that’s the right term) good with vocals.

Bass doesn’t have to absolutely kill me but I want it be as detailed and fast (?) as possible (absolutely fine with supplementing this issue with a subwoofer)
I’m not sure how sensitive I am to aggressive tweeters. But I like detail as long as its not something that would be considered “shrill” or “sibilant”

I’m really not great with some of these terms but I’ll try my best.
I’m looking for a natural sounding timbre
I’m not sure if I want it to be absolutely neutral, but like… pushing a bit towards warm. (does that make sense, I am really bad at this)
I’m focused on Sound stage and imaging. (once again tied to movies as much as music.)
I dont want a laid back speaker. But not… like… Absolutely forward and in your face. A median between the two
I want it to have some… Presence (?) with vocals (I want them to be clear and tonally natural, with clear separation and maybe a bit more forward from the sound stage, if that makes sense)

I’ve used a lot of powered monitors and computer speakers, throughout film school and my job in TV production. I’m not a fan of the flatness or the absolute lack of bass (for the smaller ones)

I have 15 year old on wall Definitives in my home theater set up that I use to hook my pc up to. They’re okay but they have poor separation and the vocals can be muddy sometimes.

I’m sorry if this is way too much.

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Side note about my room. It got enough soft surfaces and bookcases throughout that it has no echo or weird reflections of surfaces as far as I can tell.
The ceiling is ten feet high

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More information is always helpful!

They are pretty good, too, but a 3/5 Graham / Chatwell or Rogers is even better.
You just need a very good Amp and dual Subwoofers.

I chased fast bass in expensive Dynaudios for a long time. But I get along very well with the dynamic but lush bass of BBC monitors. The bigger, frontported 5/9 BBCs still have a lot of slam and dynamic in the upper bass. A 3/5 design with a fast REL sub could be cool too.

For me personally, the BBCs simply have the ability to sound crazy realistic with strings. Also voices simply always sound right and are well seperated. But they don’t throw an unbelievable amount of details at you or haevy fast bass. Electronic music is therefore not necessarily their territory.

The more neutral Dynaudios like the Contour are not designed for table use and are too big.
BBCs originally came from a studio background and are therefore very suitable for desks use.

ATC SCM19 are probably too boring for you… but maybe worth a try anyway. The definition of neutrality with incredible transparency. Music always sounds like it should sound. Details are incredible, but are not aggressively boosted.

PMC DB1 GOLD are designed for table use. Very detailed, clear and nice separation of the instruments and a bit more fun than a classic studio monitor. The Soundstage is more precise like a studio Monitor but you lose the hughe space and lage sound of a BBC. Slightly more high frequency and attack than a BBC monitor and more speed. But voices don’t sound as realistic (correct timber) as on a BBC monitor.

I’ll get back to you when I’ve thought about it for a bit and have more time.
Check if you can listen to the PMC somewhere. It doesn’t make sense to listen to them in a room, because they only sound good outside of nearfield use.

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The pmc was available via one hifi shop I know of but it’s gone now due to problems restocking due to covid. It’s available through a number of pro audio stores via online purchases. I’ll keep looking for hifi dealers though. Also a number of dealers remain closed due to the pandemic

The 3/5s are all close to 10 grand in my country and that exceeds my budget by a fair bit at the moment. The longer I wait the better I can afford something like this

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This can’t be right lol, where are you living?
They should be more like 3k.
But the PCM might fit you very well.
Both really don’t need Crazy Amplifiers to sound good too.