IEM discussion thread (Part 1)

I’d really describe it as collection of basically the lowest level information in music, so the really small nuances within music that can have a pretty significant impact on how we perceive it. Weather it be spatial cues, small microdynamic (low level) volume changes, basically just low level information that contains some of the less apparent but also important aspects. The google definition does a good job imo “a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.”

Well it’s likely to be a lot smaller than that, but how would you measure that, I’d sure hope with a full suite of time domain measurements? How do you actually make sense of those measurements to where it’s actually useful (which we aren’t even there yet for measuring source gear in general, at least in proving what’s actually “better”)? How would you ensure the ADC actually captures that accurately, make sure the ADC doesn’t shift things itself (as ADC do have a clear sound to them as well, as an example, one of the reasons why I think HDCD sounded better than some regular cd releases wasn’t because of it’s special process, but instead because it required the use of a pacific microsonics adc which was just a damn good adc in comparison to other adc that might have been used)? How do you factor in the aspect of how things interact with the rest of the chain as it would normally be used, as you can’t listen to components in isolation, but you listen as an entire chain? There’s a lot of variables, too many to really gain anything super useful from.

Again if it were that simple, the hobby would be incredibly different. To actually figure out something, you’d need a lot more advanced of a test than provided (what sort of test? I donno, I don’t measure stuff for a living), this has been an ongoing discussion for at least 50 years, it wouldn’t be if it was that simple to figure out. Another example, if it were that simple, would there really be such a wide swath of different opinions, options, and philosophies/ideologies surrounding let’s say dacs? Not really

That’s the best part of audio, in that it’s an inherently selfish thing, so if you don’t hear it, that’s only positives for you in that you don’t have to care. For why you don’t hear it could be a variety of reasons (level of critical listening and overall listening experience, the actual music and quality of said music, the differences within gear, among others), but fundamentally if you don’t really notice anything worthwhile, then it’s not worth investing in for yourself. But to dismiss all of it because you don’t immediately hear it is also ignorant of everything else out there, the truth is almost always in the middle, assuming the goal is even truth. But if it’s just down to personal listening and enjoyment, then that doesn’t really matter in the end lol, what matters more is your own experiences with things. Nothing really there to prove so to speak, but rather just share experiences and discuss with others, going to be different for everyone

Would really make the argument that most everything matters within audio, but the question more is to the extent of how much it actually matters to the individual, which is going to be different from person to person, different from setup to setup, and different from experience to experience, and so on. The goal in audio is really to find out what matters most to you based on your own experiences, and go from there. I personally value sources a lot, but at the same time can see why others wouldn’t, all depends on the surrounding aspects. Would say I found more value in them the farther I moved up and also grew as a listener, but then again I do nothing else with my life outside of audio, so I’d also say I’m more picky than others might be who have other more balanced and healthy priorities to where the difference isn’t as easily justifiable lol

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If I get it right the time domain measurement should not need “several” separate test, but just pure voltage domain chart (now I think of it - just oscilloscope should work just fine). Because if that is not to be found in the voltage then where would that perceived change be coming from? But you may be right, that it may be too small of a change to capture.

And I was thinking about simply swapping AMP/DAC in a fixed chain (so an isolated test) thatand measure this voltage swings at the same point at the output.
But only if you hear the difference with this swap yourself. Nothing too complicated, just to check if what you hear is there to be found. If you are interested to see. I don’t know if infamous ASR did not do it anyways at some point with results to be expected from that forum :sweat_smile:
Yes, very time consuming, with not much to gain - probably I would try to do it during my pension days :slight_smile:

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Oracle vs Clairvoyance? What’s the difference? There’s so little reviews on either that it’s hard to draw good comparisons

633,03 zł 25%OFF | JUNEAR TBS-01 Monitor IEM 1Planar + 4BA Hybrid Drive HiFi Earphone Hi-Res In Ear Earbud With 0.78 2Pin Plug Silver Plated Cable
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mro5pMg

1Planar + 4BA from not relatively well known company. Interesting stuff is going on this year :slight_smile:
edit:
Looks like SPD not typical planar though

They seem to have a few iems on taobao.


Single DD 96 usd


DD + 5 BA 219 usd


Hybrids and BA only
110 - 274 usd

Are you sure you mean voltage domain?
Those are useful when finding the right transistor for a job, outside of that?

When measuring Audio, you need a lot of vertical resolution. So your average cheap 8-bit scope will not tell you much (except for pass/fail type of measurements).
12-bit vertical resolution, you may start to see interesting behaviour, you are getting up there in price though.
Ideal would be 16-bit (and beyond), which is usually in the car-money territory.

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Yes, right not a typical keysight one :sweat_smile:
I hope someone designing DACs in PS audio or in some other high end audio manufacturing companies have something better than just that that could prove the point from their side as marketing material to all those measurement based audio hobbyists

For my pension time I hope to get rich enough to spend money on suches as well.

I don’t get the first point though

You guys really love this stuff, and while I absolutely don’t understand what the hell you guys are on about right now, I can appreciate the hell out of your enthusiasm. :call_me_hand:

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To be honest, they’ve stopped trying to do that because they know it’s a lost cause. It would be catering to a market that really wouldn’t be interested in their products regardless and are just going to buy whatever tops the charts each month. Not worth trying to dip to the level of those who complain for the sake of complaining and won’t consider something of that level in the first place. There are plenty of higher end companies that have taken a chart topping measurement focused approach with great results, as an example the mola mola tambaqui was fantastic in both measured performance and actual sound quality, some other dacs I’ve heard in a similar measurement range such as let’s say d90, not so much. On the other side of things, I’ve heard some dacs that looked terrible on paper sound fantastic in person (lots of options to pick from here but let’s say totaldac), and then others that sounded as bad as they looked (borderpatrol dac) lol.

A lot of these higher end mfg do care about measurements, they just don’t care about participating in the pointless race and using them as a selling point, more using for designing and checking products internally since they know it’s not really relevant when it comes to trying to judge a product off it’s measurements. As another example, I ended up getting a pair of speaker amps that were designed solely based off measurements, the designer didn’t even listen to them until he was setting them up to be shown off at a show for release. The difference was that he was shooting for his own target that he developed though his research, of what he thought was the most realistic and accurate measurement profile rather than something to just show big numbers

The TinHiFi T2 DLC is is competent in all respects and is a great addition to TinHifi’s lineup. I could not ask for more from an IEM with a street price of around $50, and I am happy to recommend the T2 DLC to new IEM listeners.

My full review is available here on HiFiGuides and on my blog.

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My Kinda Lava Lives Again!! Thank you @shuoer for helping through the confusion and assisting in all matters including the swift repair and return.

download.jpeg

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Ohhh hopefully they get to my EJs soon as well. I am now IEM less as I ended up selling the Moonlights and the right OG Tea is still dead.

Might try to reach for OG Teas again but I am tempted by all the other options in the $2-$300 range…especially given 11.11.

I was thinking either OG Tea, Tea 2 or Serials?

Already a fan of my Serials of course… but tonight I had a more powerful amp to try (Xduoo XD05 basic) and I was gobsmacked. (Also had a chance to confirm what people say about the OG Fans and how much they depend on power scaling to shine).

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I’ve got some incoming sales my friends. Will be posted shortly. Prepare your bank account because one of them is a gem and myself and surely @nymz, who sold it to me, would love to see someone here call it home.

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You selling the KL??

Not KL PM’d you. Ya know just in case you want first go :wink:

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Alright - you and Nymz and everyone else can go to hell … where were you guys when I had money :smiling_face_with_tear:

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Was excited for the Ehiku since it’s 3DD+4BA at $200 but that graph…

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Oh man, that’s such a bummer. It’s definitely unique though

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What a strange gain region followed by a damn drop off. Reviews should be interesting …

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