Now you have to explain what you mean by balanced.
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Yea and the btr5 is also cheap enough that it won’t hurt if I have to get something stronger and better down the line
I was reading about balanced vs unbalanced cables and headphones but I’d lie if I told you I understand the difference
So the btr5 has a single ended out and a balanced out. Most headphones are single ended, with a 3.5mm trs or 1/4 inch trs jack (trs means tip, ring, sleeve). Many companies are starting to introduce balanced audio (you don’t need to really know how it works electrically), which will typically have a 2.5mm trrs or 4.4mm trrs jack. When a manufacturer typically goes balanced with their gear, they focus more on the balanced output of the amp and the single ended output tends to get neglected a bit, so it typically doesn’t sound as good as the balanced output. There are plenty good single ended amps, but if something has balanced I would use that (something that has balanced doesn’t make it sound better than single ended, it just means that to use the balanced amp you would want to make sure your headphones are balanced ready). With most headphones with detachable cables on each cups, you can buy a balanced cable to use with it, but some headphones won’t work balanced, so it depends on the headphone
Also @MaynardGK how about you also give an explanation because you are able to phrase things in a more understandable and digestible manner?
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Just call me Nard, grin. Saves typing. I have a beyerdynamic DT 1990 and an Audio-Technica M50x. I don’t know from balanced. What I tend to observe is an amp with both a single-end and a balanced output often delivers exactly twice as much power via the balanced as the single-ended connection. I’ve also read people bemoan the cost of balanced cables.
My poor feeble memory cells think balanced outputs were designed to use something called common-mode rejection to provide a cleaner signal for long cable runs between devices. But in the headphone world it seems to be all about doubling the powah to provide extra heft and authority to the headphone’s sound. But I wouldn’t know from personal experience.
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Correct
Pretty much correct.
My main complaint with balanced is that it gets in people’s mind that balanced means something is better, where an equally good single ended design can preform the same without being balanced
Also @K2u3 for what portable you go with, first work out a headphone and go from there
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I take your point. But you just wrote above that DAP designers tend to neglect the single-ended output quality in a device that has a balanced output. So even someone who knows that in theory single-ended can be good is going to come up against this issue in practice.
Take my DT 1990 Pros. They’re single-ended and hard to convert to balanced. They were designed for studio use. In studios we find smart people who know single-ended has goodness. And these people apparently have lots of single-ended electronics to plug their headphones into. But in the audiophile world apparently I have to struggle to find good electronics that are targeted for single-ended. Sounds like a good reason to stick with using the 1990s straight out of my MacBook.
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I mean there are many high end headphone amps for example that are designed for single ended. Take the Pass Labs HPA-1 for example, totl headphone amp for them but entirely single ended. If they though balanced would have improved their unit they would have added it. For something a bit more affordable, take the rupert neve rnhp, an excellent headphone amp for the money, but single ended and not super powerful, yet it powers most headphones with grace and ease. It really just depends on the designs. Many chifi tend to promote balanced as a selling point/feature more than the actual use case of balanced. They could have accomplished their designs in single ended no problem but the market seems to favor balanced.
Fine, M0N. But I’m really looking at this through k2u3’s eyes. I don’t think you’re suggesting he get an HPA-1 or a Rupert Neve at this point. The new idea is to go back to an intro-level headphone that fits in with the at-the-office + use-all-day use-case. I would think, then, he should also do the same for the DAP or amp/DAC component. So an M11 DAP with an AKG K361 headphone might be a good choice, for example. (Assuming AKG has got the early production bugs out of the supply chain.)
I was thinking like a xduoo xd05 which is very reasonable with plenty of power single ended for the price (can be found for 140). My bad for going off topic lol
With a 371 or 361 I would argue you don’t even need a dap or dac/amp, I would just use your phone with these headphones
The 371 do suit the bill very well, and you can use them without a dac amp if you wanted something cheap and good
Thanks all this is very informative for a noob like me !
I’m looking at DT177x reviews and they really look good it just seems I’ll need to get a replacement cable and possibly some pads with them
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Huh, I like the pads and cable on there lol. They can be run balanced but you have to jump through some hoops to get a balanced cable for them, so I would just get a portable like the aforementioned xduoo and stick with stock cable. If you wanted to get different pads though there are plenty of options (but if you do decide to go with them I would just wait to see if you like stock pads before buying a different pair)
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Frequency response measurements would not suggest the 177X for vocal-centric music. I suppose this is one of those cases where other aspects of their design magically overcome the large upper-mids recess?
Hmmm no you are correct there is some recess in the upper mids. Generally it’s fairly balanced, but I would agree it’s not the best pick for vocals
I think with the drop in price it’s only reasonable to also also drop the demands…Saying that I think I’ll do just fine with a pair of headphones that are a good all rounder. The only genres I really never listen too are pop and edm
I would say it’s a fairly good all rounder imo. It is built very well, isolates well, and fairly coherent sound. Also great comfort for me at least. The treble could get a bit hot for some but it would depend tbh
If you wanted to go lower, the 371 is pretty dang nice for the price as well
Is drop shipping to Europe?
Ah well dreams dead with drop when I hear europe lol. I really am unsure if you could get one at a reasonable price
Sorry to be a nag, grin.
K2u3, Getting back to the topic of using a smartphone. Modern DAPs seem to be little more than smartphone interfaces with better audio electronics under the hood. But frankly, I’m surprised how good the headphones I have sound out of my iPhone 6S. And I wouldn’t expect your iPhone SE to be that different. I get that you currently only use the phone for phoning. I’m the same way. But wouldn’t hesitate to use my phone for music if the MacBook weren’t so convenient for me.
What M0N was suggesting earlier is to connect your phone to a single piece of electronics that is flat and thin and can be rubber-banded to the smartphone. The phone provides the interface. The portable amp/DAC unit provides the audio electronics. There’s nothing implicit in this that would degrade the sound. But it’s just an alternative option to a DAP.
Not recommending anything here, just trying to explain things I think may be a bit confused.
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What about the Sennheiser HD 599? (And I’d still recommend the Oppo PM-3 above a lot of other options in the low to mid tiers, just based on what I’ve read.)
I wouldn’t really recommend the 599, I would say the new hd280 pro would be a good alternative from senn. The PM-3 is pretty sweet depending on how much you could get one for (if you can get one at all)