Just ordered the Xenon pads. Nighthawk Carbons and 6xx genuinely can’t compare to the T60RP Argon’s with ZMF Suede, so I’m eager to test these out.
In what cases would the T50rp Mk3 Argons be preferred over the T60? The MHA round suede pads Modhouse is now offering for the T60 are supposed to bring up the bass on the T60. So feels like more bass is no longer a reason to go with the T50.
I’m starting from scratch here—have no Argons, no Fostex for that matter.
I was about to purchase the T50rp Mk3. What drew me to them were the descriptions of the width, the sensation you’re listening to speakers, that they’re fun, that it’s a unique headphone experience (sometimes music sounds like it’s coming from behind you). I’m not sure if the T60 Argon is this experience + more detail or if some of the ~magic~ of the T50 is actually lost.
Whichever I purchase, I’ll be using them mostly to listen to music while working.
If anyone has insight, I’d greatly appreciate it.
I have never heard a T50, so my comments value should reflect this.
I looked into the T50 Argons and was advised by several people that it is a bit overdone and more than I would probably like. I ended up buying a pair of T60RP’s on sale and trying them out for a few weeks. I really liked the sound. Good bass, nice sound and seemed pretty open for a (semi) closed back. A month later I sent them to Modhouse. It was about a three month experience from sending to receiving. I like my T60 Argons, but don’t find them especially bassy. However, my iFi amp with bass boost makes them a very nice headphone. My thoughts on them are:
Good price, all in (about $650.00 in Canuck bucks), landed.
Not real bassy, but take to bass boost or EQ like a fish to water.
The big suede pads are insanely comfortable. Like having a small pillow on each ear.
The wait is BRUTAL! It felt like 6 months. Not sure I would do it again.
I like my T60 Argons. Great bang for the buck, but I don’t love them. That may just be down to my collection though. My Cascades have thunderous bass and my LSA HP-2’s are super articulate.
I occasionally think about selling my Argons, but never do.
From what I have read and heard the T60 is going to be a lot more clear and clean than the T50’s. But is that what you want?
Thanks for the response. Headphones I use most often are Sennheiser HD560S and Sundara (2020). Looking for something different here, so maybe will go with the T50 Argon instead of T60. I guess I’m looking for something fun, strong bass, nice soundstage/spacious feel. I listen to all kinds of music, but hip hop is the biggest constant.
Had been looking at Dan Clark Aeon Closed and Drop’s version of that headphone, but from what I’ve heard/read the T50 Argons sound like a unique headphone experience. Was just mainly concerned that the T60 provide that same experience, but with better detail.
If you’re into hip hop you will probably enjoy the T50Argons more. Big, exaggerated bass from what I hear.
I preferred the T60’s for the clarity, the wood cups and that they are balanced.
But the T50’s will be a lot of fun!
IIRC he can opt to get a balanced mod too of the T50s. I want to say this is included in normal conversion to Argon. In my opinion the T60s are very capable of hitting the lows, and with a bit of bass boost they do it very well. I would say go for the T60s and just try some pad swaps to see what gives you the most/best bass.
Hello All I’ve had my T-60 Argons for a couple years now and with the hope of helping someone decide wether or not to take the 14 week leap of faith, here are my thoughts.
First, a bit about my system. I currently use my T60s with a Schitt Gungnir Multibit and Burson 3x Soloist fed by USB from either my Fiio M11 Plus or laptop. Overkill I know, but I’ll speak to that later. The T60s at my desk and Campfire Andromedas on the go comprise 100% of my listening these days.
So as not to bury the lead I’ll say first, I adore my T60s. They deliver an engaging live sound I can listen to for hours and hours across any genre. The T60s deliver accurate stunning dynamics and detail up and down the frequency range presented in a wide deep soundstage that wraps from one side to the other.
The bass reaches deep, accurately delivering punch or hum as the music demands. It’s not intentionally elevated or enhanced, probably fair to call it linear leaning, but it so thoroughly fills the presented soundstage that I have never felt it lacking on any track. I can pick out every lovely thump of an upright bass and 808s slam as they should on a trap banger.
Mids float effortlessly over the lower range. Clear and without intrusion from below, trumpets, guitars, male vocalists all take center stage. I’d say T60s are mid forward and the mids are the star of the show. Great natural tone and timbre from instruments and they can deliver plenty of bite on synths or other electronica that live in this range.
Now when I first read in this thread complaints about the highs being harsh or sibilant I was a little shocked, but after some thought on it I have two conclusions. One, I suspect I’m on the not so treble sensitive side, maybe a four or five out of ten if ten is super sensitive, and two, it sounds like your amp may play a big role in smoothing out the highs.
I, shocker I know, really love the sparkling, engaging, dare I say bright, top end. They’d be a dark warm can If they didn’t bring along a whole lot of detailed shimmer and sparkle up top. Pianos and female vocalists cut through the mix like they should, not overbearing in the slightest, but very clear and textured.
The real magic of the T60s, what lets each frequency range breathe and come through without intrusion, is its soundstage. It’s not enormously sweeping like a massive hall. It presents the music like you’re at a private concert held in an excellent midsize local venue that’s got the PA system and acoustics absolutely dialed. The instruments/sounds get to layer and coexist very naturally around you and the cans retain the impact and energy of a closed can by being, well, closed! Phenomenal imaging let’s you point your ears right to each sound. While not quite to the holographic level of my andromedas, it’s pretty shocking how close the T60s get.
Obviously, I’m a huge simp for my beloved T60 Argons, but now let’s talk reasons I might look at other options based on your preferences.
First, like we touched on earlier, if you know you’re very treble sensitive these might be a bit too bright up top for you. Now I think they are far from sibilant, and I wouldn’t even call them very bright, so if you’re not sure or just a tad treble shy I think you’ll be okay. You also have little to worry about with the highs if you’re going to be feeding them with a baller amp and DAC. I never had any issues with the highs the years I ran them off my old M11 pro before I got my desktop setup, but what others have said in the thread about beefier amplification helping smooth over the high makes a lot of sense. They’re picky easy to get loud, but hard to drive well cans. (If that sounds like nonsense just remember voltage,current, and resistance are not a simple 1:1 more power make loud go, they’re relationships that affect one another in ratio, electrical amplification is complex physics) Additionally, one reason you buy a high end DAC, while totally unnecessary, is to present greater treble detail without any harshness or sibilance, so that helps too. In summation, the highs out of my Burson and Gungnir are to my tastes immaculate, but I could imagine them being a tad bright for someone else’s taste.
The other thing I’d be aware of is if you’re going to run these off a more mid-fi or budget system to start out they’re not going to be mega over the top bass cannon slam your soul out of your skull cans. They’ve got loads of quality accurate bass that reaches deep, but if you are a self proclaimed bass head, understand that the bass is something that’ll fill out as you give them more amps to suck up. I do remember wanting more bass from time to time back in my m11 pro days. With the Burson I have zero complaints, but let’s call a spade a spade. The Burson is an 1100 dollar amp well regarded for filling out the low end of headphones with more quantity and impact while retaining accuracy. Now, I think this is less of a dealbreaker than being really treble sensitive. If you find you want more low end on your system, EQ or bass boost away. Argons with a fat bass boost are likely a way better sounding headphone than most cans that are way over done down low to begin with, certainly in the same price neighborhood. Then rest easy in the knowledge that as you build up to your dream system they’re going to keep filling out down low with good amp pairings. (By all reports, the new custom xenon pads and baffle mod bring them very close to T50 argon bass so I’d just get these if the bass had you on the fence)
The last reason I might explore other options is the nature of the value proposition.
The thing is, if you know you’re sub 500 dollar stack is where you’ll be sticking for a long long time or it’s your personal end game (nothing wrong with that, stacks in that range are unbelievably good these days) then I don’t know if Argons really sound like a 1000 or 1500 dollar headphone on a mid-fi stack. In this case, I’d consider maybe instead of copping Argons and waiting 14 weeks, save up more money for 14 weeks and get an Arya or used LCDx or any number of actual 1000-1500 dollar cans that are going to absolutely slay on your system. Now don’t get me wrong. On my M11 pro back in the day or my M11 plus now they sound awesome for sure, and I bet I’d love them on a intro shitt stack, but time is money!
What’s mind blowing about my Argons is they are the cheapest part of my desktop system, and I don’t feel they’re remotely a limiting factor. My andromedas are over double the price and I love them too, but at home it’s almost always T60s out of my desktop system. I should and will critical listen with the andros more, but I’ve just been too enamored with the T60s since the desktop system came together many months ago. It’s like they’re intended to be fed by a 2k system. They fully leaped in sound quality each time my components improved, scalability is what is so silly on these 500~ cans.
My T60s grew with my system and I can say confidently as I continue to upgrade and collect headphones they’ll always see regular use. I just think it’s valuable to understand these are kinda picky special cans that may not deliver to you the same YouTube reviewer euphoria that seizes me upon first blush if you’re not ever going to build to a real hell of a system. They were perfect for me because they were what I could afford at the time, delivered exactly the sound I wanted from a closed can, and were going to scale to my endgame. I hope this helped and feel free to reply with questions! Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk!
Very much thanks for the write-up!
I’m jumping into this thread partly because what you touched upon - I’ve decided to get these for the long term, and not in the sense of endgame (although, here’s to hoping!), but in the sense that I am now positive Modhouse headphones can keep up with any other gear upgrades I go for. With other headphones I’m kinda sure I’d feel like they’ve been outgrown by all the other stuff I bought since. The Argons seem like headphones that don’t get left behind as time goes by
Now, any experience with the Xenon pads on the T60? Thanks!
You’re welcome, glad you enjoyed it! Agreed, to borrow a Zeos aphorism, the Argons certainly earn themselves a spot on the wall.
I actually had just gotten the Xenon pads and baffle mod in as I finished up my post. From the sparse descriptions on Modhouse’s site I gathered the baffle mod is intended to tune the upper mids and treble when using the new Xenon pads, so I put them on together and don’t intend to explore them separately.
The immediate initial impact is that they’re unbelievably comfortable. I thought the ZMF suede oval pads were plenty comfortable for long listening sessions, but the Xenon pads are a solid step up. It’s just a bigger pad that’s a tad softer without being too cushy.
Sonically it’s a thumbs up for sure, and I’ll be rolling with these going forward. I’m inclined to advise going with these for anyone curious or getting new T60 Argons. They’re custom tuned by Modhouse for the headphone Modhouse custom modded after all.
The pads add a tasteful lift to the lowest regions of bass. The deeper sub-bass extension gives the effect of more bass quantity without changing much about the region’s presentation. It’s a nice subtle tweak that I’d definitely file under the win column. I didn’t have issues with the bass before, but when Ryan’s right he’s right goddamnit. I’m loving the sound and am very pleased with the thump upgrade.
On the subject of sound stage improvement, yeah, I definitely feel the Xenon adds a bit more space. More in the depth and imaging department than overall scale I’d say. It’s also a small tweak, but very tastefully executed, thanks I’d bet to Mr. Modhouse being able to tune the exact pad volume and depth. (With a week or so of listening and no AB comparison this could well be understated or overstated, your mileage may vary, but know I’m very happy with the sounds new presentation)
Did the mids or highs change? No, not to my ears. I’m sure they did in some small way, but I’d say the T60s retain very much the same mid to upper region with the Xenon pads. I’d be very curious to hear if anyone who finds the T60s on the brighter side finds the Xenon helps with that. As a lover of the lively treble’s sparkle, the Xenon pads + baffle mod has not taken anything away for me.
All in all, the Xenon pad with accompanying baffle mod adds a welcome touch a deep bass and lends more space to already a miraculously spacious closed can. Definitely the de facto pad recommendation in my book.
Will be trying these out with Xenon pads, as E-MU Teak sounds pretty respectable, but too problematic to be a keeper. Slow bass. A little rough/fatiguing. Mids recessed or lacking info.
Could not recommend these enough with Xenon Pads. Monolith Liquid Platinum+Geshelli J2 with these is absolutely a perfect experience.
Not sure I see myself buying another pair of headphones for a long time.
Hi, regarding portable dac amp,
I ordered T60rp Argons and now Im considering some portable dac amps. Can anybody advise which of below would get their potential and if they are enough? Or maybe anybody knows anything better? Im getting the balanced cable too.
So the options I found after hours of reviews:
- xDuoo XD-05 Plus
- iFi Audio xCAN
- iFi audio ZEN CAN Signature 6XX
- xDuoo XD-05 Balanced
Or maybe its much better to put this extra money to get this?
- Fi Audio Micro iDSD Black Label
$350-400 is my limit but if really worth, I’d go for some more.
Im not sure if they have enough power to run the headphones to the loud level with its voice quality potential. Im kinda stuck so thanks guys for help
apple dongle into nx7 would do the trick
This would be good.
Hell, I’m happy with T50RP on XD-05 Basic, I’m sure the plus with double the power is plenty, personally.
That is very good news. Wonder if he has increased production, or if demand is just lower?
Trying to run these hungry beasts, I just never used amps / dacs before so apologies if thats stupid
but can any1 please advise if mixing portable dac amp like e.g. xDuoo with dongle dac brings any extra benefit for power?
I’d get nx7 which is 1.4k mV on 32 ohms which doesnt have dac + dongle dac as @remtang advised above (thanks for this!) so that would boost it even more I guess. But topping nx7 doesnt have the bass boost button I guess (which I badly want sometimes) so, I wonder if planting dac to anything that already has it would still give a benefit.
So e.g. if I get portable dac amp & mix it with extra dongle dac - would that still boost power?
And 2nd thing, if I mix an amp which is not balanced with a balanced dac - does it make the whole thing working as balanced (this is probably a stupid question but I dont know, sorry)
Im wondering about e.g. DDHIFI TC44B dongle dac & xDuoo XD-05 Plus or iFi zen can signature with some extra dongle.
Im just worried that if I get some amp, it would not be enough to get the full potential. On the other hand I dont want to buy any expensive beast like ifi diablo because then I’d need to sell my kidney first.
Is this walk-around portability or mostly sitting it on a desk?
I have T50RP experience, but not Argon. I’m not sure how much greater the power demands are.
I can enjoy myself with an XD-05 basic (half the power of plus).
The XD series are dac/amps unlike the NX7. You would not need to add the dongle in the mix with that one. No. don’t do this. One device. Which offers bluetooth as a connectivity option also. And plus version maintains a bass and a ‘boost’ I believe.
I know “full potential” will be another discussion. I think nearly 1w from the xDuoo should do pretty well and offers the best compromise of output/flexibility/desired features for the $.
The dongle in that case is just to convert the digital signal to analogue since the nx7 is just an amplifier and takes a 3.5mm input.
As @lrjshabaz said the xduoo xd05 and its bluetooth adapter is the best all in one portable option that will give you enough power. Btr5 + nx7 with a 3.5mm cable connecting them would also do the same thing. Then there is a big jump up on price to the ifi Gryphon with 1w out of its 4.4mm or the ifi idsd signature which is wired only but has 4w output.
Personally I wouldnt run these headphones portably and get a topping dx3+ pro to use them at a desk.
Famous last words…probably uttered the same thing 2 years ago… And just said it to myself again today