My Journey and Experiences with DACs

My journey in audio in general has actually been on the short side. I would say I have been privileged with good advice and direction to help me avoid the constant merry-go-round and side grades that are quite common in this hobby.

Recently, I was fortunate enough to have savings and opportunity to dip my toes in a “top-tier” DAC, the LampizatOr Amber 3, following the shoes of @Polygonhell and @Towa. @M0N also has a lot of experience with other LampizatOr products as well as the Amber 3. After a day of listening, some friends were asking if the upgrade was worth it, so I wanted to share my journey of DACs. It’s a common statement and misconception that DACs don’t do much or that it does the least in your chain. While I noticed less differences compared to changing speakers/headphones or amps, I certainly could tell an obvious difference. Unfortunately, or fortunately, as you move up in gear, others will tell you that you should upgrade your electronics as well. Although that sounds like an unnecessary expense since your speaker/headphone powers up or sounds fine, I think higher-tiered products is capable of taking advantage of better electronics.

My first DACs were the ODAC and the SMSL M100. Both of them “do the job.” They don’t do anything well, but there isn’t anything to hate either. The advantage of the SMSL is that they tend to add features. I still have mine and it it’s a nice all-in-one.

My next step up is the Bifrost 1 Multibit. This is when I had my first a-ha moment when I heard vast differences. The most notable one is sound stage and dynamics. The sound stage was wide and tall that fills my entire room. Music had punch and was more fun to listen to. I was more likely to get up and dance around (sorry for the imagery).

The step after there was the Bifrost 2. This was a logical step up since Schiit offered a discount to upgrade. This did everything the Bifrost 1 did, but better and more. Now, I would still say the BF1 is an amazing value buy, especially if you are strapped for cash, you can probably get a used one for much cheaper than before. The sound stage was even wider and taller yet. There was more of a visceral feeling and the timbre was improved. Instruments sound like they should and vocals are clear and accurate. This was essentially my “end game” DAC for a while.

Now after the wall of text, I finally land to the Amber 3. The last DAC I will have to buy unless I do a complete overhaul on my entire system. This DAC is certainly retails over 3x the amount of the BF2, does it perform 3x better? No. So what does it do and is it worth it?
What a top-tier DAC does is keep everything that previous DACs do, but does it better and adds on top. While the sound stage did not get wider or taller, it remains the same, BUT… what it does is add depth and layering. Now when I close my eyes, I can actually imagine an actual stage there. It wasn’t a wide and tall sound stage for the sake of being as wide and tall as possible – it is accurate. The imaging is superb. I can now accurately point out where the guitar is or the violin or the vocalist. It takes me a significant step closer to believing a performance is in my room. The timbre is greatly improved as well. I can easily lie to myself that a guitar is actually playing in my room, etc.

So, I hope these observations help. While you move up to a higher-tier, it usually upgrades everything you looking for, but not as much as you think, but what it does add are the intangibles that you never though you wanted until I heard them. I think they are important steps and observations towards believing a real performance is happening in my room, so while it wasn’t the largest return for the money, it was worth it to me.

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Nice write up, def agree lol :+1:

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Nice impressions! Still waiting on mine to arrive, should be here Monday according to FedEx. I’m expecting a even bigger jump in difference and quality since I’ll be coming from a enog2pro. That sounds crazy when I think about it… The amber 3 msrp costs 20x the cost of the enog, jeez that’s kinda ridiculous.

What amps are you running with your amber 3? And which is your favorite amp and headphone pairing so far? @Veritas

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so far my progress is “maybe a slight notable difference when you first start out but then you get used to the sound and it no longer matters to you because you are craving another high”… but then again im using super cheap USB DACS that are under 150

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Nice write up! You are certainly commited. :+1:

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The unfortunate thing about amps is that I feel like you need to get one from each camp, tube vs. SS, because they have different strengths and weakness. In addition, different headphones react to different ones. I know DACs share the same variables, but you’ll hear a larger change in amps.

For tube amp, I am using the Ray Samuels The Raptor OTL for my ZMF Auteur (favorite combo) and HD600.
For SS, I am using the Asgard 3, with my Hawks.

Side note, when you start to move up in tiers for a tube amp, I feel like the weaknesses of the tube amp dramatically decreases. I feel that my Ray Samuels has the speed and dynamics as my Asgard 3, but adds the musicality and warmth of the tubes. It’s very refined and I think that’s what you buy for the extra expense.

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Hey, maybe you’ll be pleasantly surprised. Any plans on visiting a show in the future? You may get a chance to try one out. It may be for you, it may not.

there are no shows near my area…

as in like i live in a boring suburb in georgia

plus dont have the space for desktop level stuff and im dac skeptic but dac curious… basically i so far believe they dont really work since i dont really hear an impact or change in texture or warmth or feeling like i want.

its just me wanting a kind of musical high

In this case, ignorance can be bliss. If you enjoy what you have, enjoy it as much as you can while you can. This can be a very expensive hobby and the rabbit hole can be deep. My post was just to help someone that was just constantly wandering around and what one gets when they upgrade a DAC.

On the other hand, with this statement, if they didn’t work, I and many other members would have just returned their DACs. If I didn’t hear a difference in my Bifrost 1, I wouldn’t have gone up to a Bifrost 2. Also, Schiit has a 30-day satisfaction guarantee, so I would have returned it back.

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If you get that hyped up for a product it will likely dissapoint. Especially at the intro tiers the difference between stock computer audio (depending on the machine) is not going to be absolute night and day. My Enog is a great improvement, but it’s not such a giant leap forward that it’d give you a ‘musical high’. Maybe that’ll happen further on down the line with better gear, but the subtle changes I hear now really do enhance the listening experience. Especially after I spent time listening via phone / iFi nano all day.

Yeah that’s true

But I kinda wanna get a musical high off an amazing portable dac

cool write up!

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Thanks for the detailed history you experienced. You’ve helped me get another possible DAC for me to look at.

Schiit Bifrost 2

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I dove into the high end musical world via the slippery slope route when I wanted to get better sound out of my computer. What did I know? When I last had a working stereo system the CD player was the latest development and I’d heard that some people were listening to music that was being sold on DVD because “better quality”. My speakers broke in 2013 after my daughter threw a party in the house while we were away. :slight_smile:

The amp needed a major refresh since I purchased it new in 1989 or 90. My CD player would no longer read disks and I had a Tuner. Actually, I think I still have the turner somewhere. So my main music listening was in the car, and plugging the iPod meant I had a set of Behringer powered monitors being fed from the built in sound chip on the mobtherboard. Oh, and to add insult to injury about 3/4 of my music collection was 128k MP3 files.

Over the last couple of years I’ve upgraded a lot of equipment to the point where it IS good enough to resolve sounds. Equipment that although far from top shelf stuff, started to make me hear things in my music library that I hadn’t heard before. I had upgraded to an Asus STX II sound card which at the time put on board sound chips to shame. I’d gone ahead and re-ripped all of my CDs to 320k MP3 files thinking that was more than good enough for my new hi resolution equipment.

Then the slippery slope came in, get a new pair of headphones, 59X. Wow they sound really good, which showed me how poor of an amp the Asus card had, so let me get an expernal amp, a cheap DAC. Topping D10, and while I’m at it I can put a Burson OP amp into the Topping so I can get better sound into my new Kef 100 speakers. So yeah, the usual slippery slope. So far this brief history had taken about a year’s worth of time and has seen a lot of incremental upgrades along the way but always looking at the bang for the buck factor.

Now, on the subject of DACs, knowing that I had no idea of what a DAC really was and that all of the equipment I’d already upgraded to made my music sound so much better. It’s easy to come to a conclusion that the DAC is not a substantial component of the journey. Originally when I started to upgrade parts. I ran across one of the 128/320/FLAC tests online. I could easily tell the difference between a 128k MP3, but could not really discern between 320 and FLAC. I could only pick the FLAC files from the three examples 50% of the time, better than random luck but still not that great. Butt it wasn’t until I crossed a certain equipment threshold that I could pick out 6 out of the 6 choices in the test.

I’m near what I think is endgame for me (financially at least for now) in my stereo system, it’s been a compressed journey for that because 1) I had the money to purchase what I was looking for and 2) I had the education that had come from the upgrade journey and learning to listen on my computer system. I can say now that I can much better discern differences in DAC, certainly between a cheap built in DAC, a decent external sub $200 DAC and a more audiophile grade DAC despite it being 17 years old. My equipment was good enough that it clearly showed a marked improvement with every (cheaply acquired) DAC I upgraded to. So if a 17 year old DAC that I got for $275 bucks can have such a marked improvement over a general purpose good enough $150 dollar DAC then there’s clearly something to DACs.

I bought a Bryston DAC 1 again used, again for cheap, I guess not cheap cheap because I paid $600 bucks for it, but this one is only 9 or 10 years old, a lot more modern processing and it was a very well reviewed high end $2000 dollar DAC when new. I funded the purchase of this one selling stuff that I’ve outgrown so the real outlay for me was $300 bucks. For that money there isn’t anything that I could have bought new that would sound as good as this one does. Fantastic bump in clarity, sound stage, definition, and just downright being able to point precisely at an instrument that feels like it’s right there.

It’s very tangible proof for me that DACs matter a lot. Not a position that I shared just a year ago.

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For the price, I was quite impressed with the Bifrost 2 and knew it would be in one of my setups for quite some time. It starts to add and do those intangibles so well that were missing in earlier DACs. It helps with that visceral feeling. If you want a DAC that has warmth, musicality, and punch, I think it is a great way to go.

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Thank you so much for your detailed response! I have always enjoyed hearing other’s journey story in this hobby – your write up on the Zu Dirty Weekends was memorable as well.

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@db_Cooper, thank you so much for taking the time to write up your thoughts on all your equipment, happy listening always Johnny, may you have years of relaxation and enjoyment!

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@Veritas, well written and thoughtful, thank you for taking time to give us your impressions, happy listening and enjoyment always!

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