The best way to understand is to download an EQ and try then listen to the result by yourself, no one can tell you how impactful this 5dB except you.
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Sorry, by context I meant relative to other headphonesâs measurements. If weâre comparing to the Harmon curve (for purposes of this discussion) then is there a headphone that nearly matches it? And if so how does that compare to the Neumann?
Honestly my favorite for overall listening are the Solaris IEM (so far). I would love to find a equivalent in a headphone. They make most everything sound amazing but again with anything they have some drawbacks. Nothing is perfect.
The Cascades are great. My go to for bass. The bass in plenty and tight. Has no problems slamming or holding the bass notes. The sub bass at 25-30db is plenty without being excessive and bloomy. The mid bass is command and has the biggest presence. The bass can sound like it bleeds slightly into the mids but I thinks it has more to do with mids sounding a slight recessed because the highs are elevated. By no means is the mids recessed more neutral. Cascade is a slight V shaped but more leaned towards a L so you may get a sense of that. I donât own or have heard the Argons but the highs do have a sparkle to them so I would tread carefully.
Bring up the Harman Target Curve is opening up another pandoras box.
Here is a brief history break down about it and where they got it from.
http://www.juloaudio.sk/Umiestnenie_reprosustav/History%20of%20Harman%20Target%20Curve.pdf
Here is a something maybe easier to digest. (sorry still have to read)
If you wanna dig deeper into this rabbit hole you can go ahead and look for the Audio Engineer Society Papers.
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https://www.rtings.com/headphones/1-2/graph#589/2031/386
JBL Free and SteelSeries Arctis 7 and Astro A50 and other bluetooth headphones with DSP (or something like that) are also flat AF, but I wonât bother. 
Look, not to stir the pot up some more but I want a better understanding of your stance on the Neumanns.
Not once but twice have you praised the Neumanns for its bass, care to elaborate on what you mean by this?
Wouldnât a set of neutral headphone not have such a stand out bass?
Just putting out food for thought for you to mull over.
We all have difference of opinions, difference in experience (life, career, tastes), difference setup (surrounds, ears, equipment, etc), take anything said by anyone with a grain of salt, including mine. We are all hear to share and learn our passion for headphones.
Mine came today and I figureativily couldnât restrain myself from ripping then open in the parking lot.
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Youâre not one of those people who donât straighten the wheel when parking are you? Savage! 
Also, I heard those headphones are neutral but not neutral but neutral to Harman but then also just not neutral. Very confusing for an amateur. I say bottom line, enjoy!. Wish I had a pair.
(No flame intended just having a chuckle at the discussion) 
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Iâve gone that far down a rabbit hole Iâm other hobbies. So far Iâm trying to steer clear of this particular rabbit holeâŚpartially successfully.
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Good luck! I tried and failed 
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Exactly. Thatâs why Iâll wait for a more neutral version of these. 
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With improved pads that add to the neutrality.
just got 3 pairs of brainwavz XL pads, pleather, hybrid and sheepskin. personally I think the pleathers sound the best to me. the hybrids are way too open and I feel like the sheepskins have a little too much treble. The pleather just felt a lot more closer to the stock pads but a lot, and I mean a lot more comfortable as my ears dont touch the inside plastic of the headphones anymore and they are softer too so the clamp isnt bad but still has enough to keep them on your head.
Yeah well donât worry so much about me being here so much. Send them back today. My initial impressions was reaffirmed when listening to them more and more. Built like a panzer tank, precision and detail like a K98 mauser rifle. Too bad it rumbled like a Mercedes 300TD when i was looking for a refined S class.
They did give me a new appreciation for the 58X though. The 58x is definitely underestimated and makes me consider trying the 660s.
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Lmfao okay, lo fi bass head coming through
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I got rid of my hd660s after getting the NDH20. the NDH20 has more detail and cleaner sound imo
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Literally was in the exact same boat. Didnât really care for my Naumanns, and made me love my 58X even more, especially for the price. Wouldnât buy 660s if I were you though, they are basically just 58X but a little better in the highs, with less bass, and for the price vs it, not worth it in my eyes.
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Does the HD58X have less detail, though? Or is the difference between the NDH20 and the HD58X negligible, like, audiophile-placebo-levels in terms of difference in detail retrieval?
(Sorry, kinda out of context.)
Oh no, there is definitely a difference. I could tell the Neumannâs were a lot clearer, and vocals were on point, but, they are un-comfy, and me personally, I donât like these being closed back, it is âToo closed backâ for me, like, you put these on, and that fan you just heard is now dead. Didnât really like that, I like Airy Headphones.
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Comparing to my hd58x, These definitely have more detail retrieval and things are much more clearer and they do indeed sound neutral to me. An improvement? Yes. However, they are not perfect.
I do have some issues with them, but they are more design oriented. I too, like Photo above me, prefer the feel of open back headphones, I would much rather be able to hear whatâs going on around me with these on. As far as comfort, I would like different earpads, more oval shaped, but my ears are small enough where this doesnât get too uncomfortable for me. What does bother me is the weight of them. They canât disappear on your head like my hd58x or my pc37x headset can. My biggest problem would be this fucking awful bullshit stiff cord coming out of the right can. It never really lays or feels right on me, itâs like Iâm always aware of the fucking thing. Iâm using the straight cord by the way. I can say though, Iâve not heard any sort of interference in this cord rubbing up against anything else, so I donât know what to say about that since some people have had issue with that.
I think if I could hear what I hear from these in an open back, thatâd be perfect. But theyâd probably be more than $500 and thatâs about as much as I want to ever be throwing at headphones. I havenât made a final decision yet, but Iâm definitely leaning towards keeping them.
To LeDechaine, There is an obvious non-audiophile level of difference between the two, but the greater gulf between them comes from the price. For the price of the hd58x you get some amazing fucking headphones.
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