Well, im as suprised as u are. I will definitely will do some more testing in the future to be able to exactly tell why im prefering the Sennheisers (im curious about that myself), but for now the HD560s just feel better to play with for me.
I mostly play Overwatch and some Apex. The headphones are powered by a SMSL SP200/M200 Stack or an GoXLR-Zen Can Signature “Stack” (i didnt really notice a difference in sound between them).
If I would have to describe now, why i prefer the HD560s: For me it just feels like, that the soundstage of the HD560s is a lot bigger than the one of the DT880 as well as DT1990, wich makes it way easier for me to judge the distance of an enemy. With the smaller soundstage and the aggressiveness of the DT1990, it pulls so many details close into my ear, which distracts me more than its usefull. In comparison to that, the HD560s feels way more relaxed, it plays the sounds, which are close to me, loudly and sounds wich are further away a lot quieter and more distant, but still loud enough to hear them. With the DT1990 i have the feeling that distant sounds and environmental sounds are interfering with the sounds i actually need to hear to have an advantage over the opponent which is close to me, the Sennheisers just has the better balance to my ears.
Well, i didnt say that the Sennheiser isnt a bright headphone, but for me it feels way less fatigueng than all of the Beyers i tried. The DT880 comes close, but i still think the HD560s has a bit less treble to my ears.
I even ordered some of foam discs now, which are in the tygr and aventho wireless, to dampen the treble of the beyers a bit, just to make sure that the advantage i feel with HD560s doesnt only come from reduced treble. However, i have “mained” the DT990 for like 2 years, so i think i can handle some treble. ::
You’ve done a very good job explaining everything!
One last question, what would you get? or what do you reach for when playing a game and want to win(assuming you have a lot more headphones to choose from).
Typically it would depend on the game but more than likely I use the T1 2nd gen for my competitive use… I normally don’t reach for hifimans or sennheisers less it was gonna be like Apex where I want a bit more in the case of verticality but in apex’s case it’s definitely not the best case of place this fps sound for competiive advantages. I used to have 560s, 58x jubilee, and 660s till I traded them in going towards focal all of these perform exceptionally well and there is nothing wrong with using these… my issue with sennheiser personally was that the oval shaped of the ear cups, again for me personally, was more of an on ear and made them very uncomfortable after some time… I mainly used them because I just liked their sound alot. If I had to choose to rely on one headphone between the three brands there though… its going to be a toss between beyer and senn with hifiman getting thrown out the window… I have had way way too many QC issues with Hifiman over there to really contend with the thought of buying much more from them let alone relying on their products… mind you I do own their arya and love it but thats another story.
considering the amp/dac isn’t the best on spatial recreation to my memory of those ones in particular and the games of choice there really don’t need a larger headphone like the 1990 I can see the 560 being a more solid option for sure. Then again, I definitely didn’t get more soundstage than my beyers from the 560s its just a good size… one of those jack of all trades headphones. Could definitely be attributed to my fitting of sennheisers though since they don’t full seal on my ear
The he400se stomp the 560s in everything. It’s just not debatable. They annihilate them with a pad swap. Anything that brings them further from your ear will help with soundstage and while I wouldn’t recommend them for everything they don’t lose anything at all for gaming by dragging the soundstage out at all with pads like some headphones. Dekoni suede, brainwavz XL micro suede gaming pads are great and aliexpress has leather 110-120mm pads that are great but have a brutal shipping time right now. Stock they’re amazing but with pads they beat sundaras handily and sundaras don’t respond nearly as well to pads.
@pokrog well i’ve read @50% of the he400se thread. Noticed you and pk500 getting excited over them, to put it mildly :D.
well with a new cable(that stock cable tho) and pads would sum up to sundara, that feels off, regardless what amp or ampdac would you recommend for them?
zen can is amp only… yes you want a dac… zen can and dac go together as a full stack.
yep… hifiman being the more picky of those two though bit more on the demanding side.
Sorry, I am gonna have to chime in on this and stop this here. This is purely subjective viewpoint while I am glad you enjoy the headphone to this extent they are quite different headphones in multiple ways enough to differentiate the two to be potential side grades depending on what a person is after from build, to comfort, to soundstage, etc.
I did not have these results admittedly upon trying the pad swaps on the 400se… claiming they are better than the sundara is one hell of a claim and it doesn’t hold up as I own both headphones mentioned as well as a 560s. 400se is well worth the money but nothing so glamorous as being better than its older brother granted it can get you quite an experience regardless.
wrote that real fast on my phone, apologies if that came out wrong pok. As for my experience with the pad swaps… the slightly larger pads will increase the soundstage but they alter the sound signature in varying ways… something such as full leather caused muffling on my end… infact the only pads that really got along were suedes and other hybrids… velour caused them to teeter into too bright territory.
I get it but the 560s are straight garbage. Im done letting people recommend them. They blow. Soundstage isn’t anywhere near as good as even the hd598s and even those didn’t have much going for them other than sound signature being good for gaming. As for sundaras i get them being ok, but they absolutely do not have a good forward imaging profile. Sundaras and Anandas both have it and its just not even subtle. It’s like an imaging choice by hifiman to bring the center image forward to counteract the dip they have and it results in a poor transfer from left/right into center image and the only way I can explain it is with an image. At around 30° the center image straight up loops back and towards you and then back to center. Here’s my horrible paint drawing of a sundara front imaging
and i’m not exaggerating how it comes back from left to right to narrow into the center. It’s there and if you cant hear it that’s great. Game with a sundara. I don’t care. It’s wonky and it’s there on the ananda too and not a single other hifiman. Not, HE1000v1, v2, edition xx, arya, he400se (or any 400 series for that matter), he6 4 or 6 screw, he6se v2, he5, he5xx, or deva. It’s only the sundara and the ananda. I’m not gonna pretend like its irrelevant, it’s bad imaging. HE400se with deep suede pads stomps a sundara. Without pads its better still. At least the imaging is spot on. Like every single bit as good as any beyer spot on and with better vertical imaging. I’ll recommend the he400se with suede pads over 880s, 990s, 1990s, and even t1.2s. If i was playing counter strike, i’d choose t1.2s for being more in your face but thats it. Stage size on the 400se is a serious force to be reckoned with and its stage depth and accuracy is second to very few. 560s don’t deserve a rec. They’re bad. Sundaras are better than nothing but are also specifically bad. They can be ok for a close shooter but they are straight up not accurate for depth and forward imaging. I’d put the 560s before them if for nothing other than frontal consistency.
I mean, I am not the biggest fan of senn’s headphones… but I definitely wouldn’t call the 560s garbage… its just probably not for you lol. Sometimes people really dont like those headphones meant to be like super reference grade.
Hmm, while I can agree the imaging isn’t the best… I don’t have this issue to such a severe degree… infact my Sundara is practically even on imaging capabilities as the 400se but with more sound qualities such as better detail retrieval, texture, etc it just sucks at bass in comparison.
curious if you had a bad sundara or something… potentially possible all considering…
That’s one hell of a biased look towards that headphone but least we can say your definitely a fan of the headphone lmfao.
I would never EVER rate a 400se over my T1… not ever, not happening. Provided you have a good synergy amp and dac… just not happenin.
eh? but the T1 is practically the only beyer that’s not built to be in your face… curve drivers and relaxed signature plus the largest stage of the beyers all that jazz is the whole reason I stay with the T1 really over a 1990… that aggression never sits right with me.
this though… lmfao. makes me think of the pc38x imaging
for me and just for me personally, the Sundara out perform the 400se is almost every perceivable way… better air, better control, better texture, higher detail retrieval, better mids since they are more transparent and sound clearer. The biggest issues with the Hifiman are the imaging, lack of bass, and pad swap capabilities
my thoughts exactly. sound signature on the 37x and game one make it less noticeable but its there on the gsp series too. also a little bit on the cheaper audio technica and the razer trash does the same thing to the most extreme degree.
I am aware, this why I am asking. I am assuming if i dont need the dac, i will get the zen can(since they are @same price im assuming the zen can might perform better).
Also as I can see audio is mhmhmh subjective, very subjective.
we all hear things differently but at the same time theres a lot of agreements in many ways… especially when it comes to gaming peripherals… such as the common knowledge that gaming headsets are really just god awful budget headphones with a mic slapped on lol. Basic like $50 headphones can actually best even Steel Series in terms of sound qualities… just not build quality
if its the 400se that ones super low requirement on power so you should be fine with just zen dac… if its sundara… Sundara scales pretty hard so you’d more than likely want both units and utilize the balanced cable approach from that setup… 400se is the more forgiving one though definitely making it more accessible to those on a budget.
@Pokrog for the record though… the 400se is going into the write up guide… definitely by no means a bad headphone in this use case… not for the money whatsoever.
I get questioned about the 38x… nonstop all the time. Later on it was gl2k but at the very least I can actually say some good things about gl2k.
absolutely but I definitely think the he400se isn’t nearly as forward. The t1.2 has a near perfect linear distance but closer sounds are a lot more forward in the best way possible and I don’t mean it as a bad thing and I don’t mean to say the t1.2 has a small stage just that closer sounds on the he400se aren’t nearly as forward. The vertical imaging makes up for it as most times with them if the person you’re hearing isn’t dead already in close situations they’re either very clearly above or below you and though they do fall short of the t1.2 at extreme close distance (they seem to have a firm cutoff at around 6-8 feet or closer of distance for depth) the vertical imaging more than makes up for it for me personally. I still would pick the t1.2s on a lot of stuff over the he400se but apex, siege, battlefield in tall buildings, arma, tarkov, splitgate, all of them I’d give the edge to the 400se purely because of vertical separation and cod multiplayer, csgo, valorant, and to some extent quake I’d give the edge to the t1.2. The 400se definitely don’t have it all but for a lot of the newer style BR shooters and really wide open games they really shine. They could use some serious work in stock form and I do think they need pads and grills to be where they compete well, but even then compared to every sub $500 headphone I’ve heard I’d pick them. Elex is a maybe but if I remember right you had the same problem I had with a DOA driver and even though I’d say they’re better at some closer games I still cant stomach the rec because of what I’ve seen in terms of QA problems and I’d still only put them as marginally better than 990s imaging wise and 1990s being a firm step down from them in stage size while having every bit as good of imaging. IF the t1.2 can be had for sub $500 its a no brainer and they’re stout as fuck unlike the hifimans. Though I have had a t1.2 driver die on me once and also a 990 600 ohm as well (thousands of hours of use each though) and never had a hifiman driver die on me so while anecdotal at best that’s my experience with quality surrounding them.
I’ve been using the same setup for about three years for COD/war zone/blackout. 2013 mix amp, k701, and modmic. Bass is almost non existent but I can’t imagine a better setup for pin point accuracy.
Sundara not only scales more its more power demanding and picky about it… just a zen dac on the sundara is something I cannot personally confirm and others who currently own the unit will have to confirm for you.
You can yes provided your motherboard is capable of providing a relatively clean signal. Though it will not best a dac… cutting corners is fine but going with motherboards will yield poorer results compared to dedicated units
Something to note… zen dac and can have most of their power in the balanced port of which the hifiman here do not come with a balanced cable. Sound quality will differ between the two ports and unbalanced will be quite a bit weaker. If planned to use the balanced port, Please do not try to plug the unbalanced cable into the balanced port with some kind of adapter as this will damage the units… the cable itself has to be made balanced.
well I am also tempted by just getting a schiit fulla 4 or hell, maybe a mayflower arc mk2 for the mic input since it will be for gaming, mostly. From what ive researched the fulla 4 will be capable of powering the sundaras but ive seen people complain about qc.
edit: So rn Sundaras are back in stock and im tempted to either go fulla 4, hell or magni/modi stack. Im not quite sure how good the magni(which one is most neutral,clean)/modi is for me to forgo the mic input. I will probably not buy any other headphone in the near future more powerful than the sundara.
not so sure on fulla 4, though I know hel definitely can. However Fulla is more worth its price since hel and mayflower are both $180+ seing how you can get a dedicated stack for about $150 ish and have better results. Less your using modmic you really don’t need the mic input and even then… they really aren’t all that great.
magni and modi is fine and will have the most power and cleanest signal next to hel. Can easily find this stuff on the used market though and save yourself some money… magni and modi like just magni 3+ can be found for around $70 same with modi as long as its the most recent models
