I will probably get a amp or dac/amp as well!
@Kron I have tried the dt770 on my motherboard and used a friends creative g6 external sound card for a few days. Sounded different but not better, i assumed it was due to the software the g6 came with.
are the akg’s sturdy? what exactly is lacking comfort wise?
The 250 Ohm of the DT770 is actually not easy to drive and need a lot of power, i wouldnt use these without an amplifier. The DT1990 is much easier to drive than a 250 Ohm DT770/880/990, even tho its also 250 Ohm. Reason for that is that sensitivity also matters a lot and the 1990 is just much more sensitive.
However, the DT770 will always be (same as the DT990) a very harsh sounding headphone, it just has a lot of treble. The DT1990 as well as the DT880 are better in that regard (the tygrs probably too), but still are treble heavy headphones.
Avoid motherboard audio, its just not good. A Creative G6 should be enough to drive them tho, just make sure that all the software “enhancements” are turned off, it actually makes them sound worse.
EDIT: How i said, i find the HD560s much better than Beyerdynamics, also the treble is not as sharp as with the beyers.
So far Ive talked to people on discords ltt an such, saw they said dt 770 is very easy to drive. ALso i did have turned everything off(digitally enhanced 7.1 on the g6, again @2 days).
also how come the hd 560s are better at gaming or so than higher version like hd660 or 600.
there is no benefit for gaming going higher than 560s, even if small?
Cool, I’d suggest looking a little higher than the G6, maybe something like a Zen dac or an Atom stack for example.
The AKGs feel pretty good in terms of build, they’re no Beyerdynamic but they aren’t bad IMO. The comfort problem on the two I had were that the pads were really hard out of the box and so were the headbands. The k712/7xx have different pads and headband so I think they may be better. I personally am very sensitive to hotspots on the top of my head so I only really get on with softer suspension strap headphones, its one of the reasons that I am way more into IEMs now.
@Kron
so last 2 headsets were a Razer Kraken, I was reckless and broke the cable. Got really mad and 1 hour later bough a wireless Razer Nari essential. Now straight up Kraken was better sound quality and it was obvious.
Now i can definitely tell the imaging on this Nari is not bad by any means, i can tell where things are.
But the lack detail and sort of range, muddy or muffled.
As I mentioned I am willing to splurge a bit over what I would’ve bought 1 year ago, hence i want to hear with clarity and range whats happening around me in shooters(apex,warzone mostly).
For “detailed headphone” I assumed its the ability to separate different cues from each other, footsteps to the right, gunfire above, a door opening to the left, guy jumping behind me switching weapons like mad, or they could be in the same direction, as long as u can i guess effortlessly pick that up im good to go.
It really feels like somepeople that i play with do hear these cues more clearly and are not obscured by other ?frequencies?. Sort of like the game generates the sound but somewhere in between the game and my ear, information is lost and/or diminished to an extent that my ear/brain cant process/detect it.
Sidenote im kinda interested in the Sundara since its planar(new), is that any good, heard people talk about how easy planars are to damage.
Overall im not quite certaain what to expect from an openback but im definitely getting one.
I have not tried the HD660, so all i say now is from people i heard talking about it: The HD660 are darker sounding with basically no soundstage, but with very good imaging. The HD560s has pretty big soundstage (at least bigger than the DT880 and DT1990) with a neutral/bright sound-signature and also very good imaging, which u want to have for competitive gaming. I know a lot of people say that soundstage doesnt matter and all that matters is, how good the imaging of a headphone is, but I find it way easier to locate the distance of a sound with a bigger soundstage.
I personally used the DT1990 for over one year now, i got them because people were claiming that it is one of the best headphones for competitive gaming. I think its very good, i for sure I notice an improvement over the DT770/880/990, but its also a very heavy headphone, which is not ideal for long gaming sessions. I just recently seen a video of the youtuber “Fresh Reviews” in which he claims that the HD560s is better than the DT1990, and for sure i thought: Yeah, he must be wrong, everyone says the DT1990 is one of the best. Since i wanted to get the HD560s for music anyway, because i heard a lot of positive reviews about it, i bought it and was seriously impressed. How i said, i have been using the DT1990 for over one year, so my brain basically has “burned in” the sound signature and usually it always takes time to adjust to a new headphone/sound siganture. Well, consider me suprised, after even one game with the HD560s it felt much easier to locate sounds. I basically was denying it and was like: yeah, impossible that a headphone i got for 150€ is better than my 400€ DT1990 which is praised by a lot of people. So I kept comparing with the Dt770, 880 as well as my daily driver the 1990 and always came to the same conclusion: I just think the HD560s are better.
With the DT1990 i often had the feeling, it overloaded my brain with absolutley useless information, which was more distracting than usefull. With the HD560s however, i feel like i get the right information at the right time and its also much easier to judge the distance of a sound source.
I cannot tell u if there are other headphones which are better for comp gaming, because i have not tried them. But i have had the HD599, Fidelio X2, DT770, DT880, DT990, DT1990, ATH-M50x as well as several gaming headsets, and out of them, i for sure think the HD560s is the best for competitive gaming. U can pair it with a 30€ sharkoon gaming DAC, which is more than good enough to drive it, and a 2,5mm Mic Cable form Amazon which fits the HD598 but als the HD560s and have a really good competitive gaming setup for under 200€.
The 250 Ohm DT770 are not easy to drive, i dont know who would argue otherwise. The 32 Ohm Version of the 770 is the easy to drive version.
HE400se:) i think they work very well purely for gaming or the dt880s 600ohm version
@jurgupower
I have watched Fresh Reviews competitive series for audio several times actually.
Im looking at it like this, i got @500 euro.(+whatever a ampdac would cost)
I need to buy myself the best edge in fps games(apex,warzone), most efficient audio setup within that price range. Think of it like, got the money, need to buy something, if any money remains it gets burned.
@Toni_Elex HE400se, wouldve bought it already if it wanst for that weak cable, looks like it can break easily, not sure tho.
you could get a cable from Login • Instagram tbh, relatively cheap and high quality for sure, plus the dude makes them by hand in italy
@Toni_Elex got it, will look into the cable at the very least. What about the Sundara, wouldnt it outperform the he400se?
Gaming wise not really both perform amazingly but solely for gaming i would choose the he400se because of its detail and imaging plus you can get another headphone for music that would be my choice
@Toni_Elex
So there would be no difference for gaming for these 2 headsets?
im not doubting you, im just digging up a bit. To make sure we are on the same page roughtly speaking 
Not really, music wise yes but for gaming it’s really nothing noticeable from my personal experience:)
@Toni_Elex would you say better than the hd 560s? in terms of detail, soundstage and imaging? he400se
Have not tried 560s can’t tell, but from what people say they’re in the same ball park
I use DT1990s all day for meetings, and then all night for Valorant. So I can attest that they’re comfortable 
Specifically for gaming they’re excellent, the imaging, the positioning, the detail…all great. If you’re in the 500EUR budget range and looking for gaming cans I can’t recommend them enough.
EDIT: custom cable is recommended though, not because the stock one sounds bad but just because it’s kinda inconvenient/cheap. I use: https://oidiosound.co.uk
So this tracks pretty well actually. Most strictly competitive players (at the top levels anyhow) tend to do things like turn down detail settings as a sacrifice for better frame times (specifically more consistent frame times being more important than high frames per second). If you’ve ever seen the clay-dough images on a SC2 pro’s screen, and compared it to the beautiful higher detail images the audience gets to see, you’ll know what I mean.
Sound is probably not any different. Great sounding headphones that “put you in the game” and make for a fun, immersive experience probably do some things that are counterproductive to “strictly competitive” gameplay. I could well imagine that truly advantageous sound would likely not be very pleasant to the ears.
If you learn to use equalizer APO with reaper plugins, you could spend some time tweaking your EQ to emphasize frequency ranges that are prevalent to cues your specific game of choice uses. Things like gunfire, footsteps, breathing, reloading, gear swaps, etc. You could emphasize each of these things while pulling other sound bands down. The result would be initially a sound profile that is weird, distorted, and probably doesn’t help a lot. However, the brain grows accustomed to warped input pretty quickly, and after a couple of weeks practice, it would be like having super ears for radar. I assume that’s what you’re after.
Listening to music with the result would be a terrible experience, but it sure could help a gamer make best use of audio cues in a competitive environment.
woo quite a read already here.
lol, we do get questions on this quite often and I try to get to them and help people when I can.
just as long as you come to realize and are ok with the fact that a headphone is going to help push you along… it is not going to be like some kind of wall hack… there are limitations to a headphone but there are also bigger limitations on the games we play… take for example Call of Duty Warzone… that particular games sound engine is pitifully garbage and has a world of issues even on some of the best headphones you can get… lots of inaccuracies, weird soundstage placements, garbled sounds off in the distances, lack of being able to fully utilize much larger soundstage headphones despite being quite a large game, etc.
“faster” will not happen outside of just larger soundstage… your enemies will hear you just as fast as you hear them if capable. Your own reaction times will come into play here… a headphone will not give you some crazy edge on your opponent outside of pinpoint accuracy and how far/close they are. The biggest edge a lot of headphones will provide though is being able to easily pick up sounds such as reloading, med kits, etc which can allow you to have a jump on the target.
That motherboard I can only assume definitely struggled with that 770… its no surprise it was a bit on the fatiguing side of things as beyers do tend to lose their bass and become very sibilant without the proper amount of power.
youll see ad700 a lot because it is still one of the few budget kings alongside shp9500… its not bad by any means its just built… well put it this way its flimsy enough to snap lol same as the shp9500 neither one scream build quality but the sound is good I just wouldn’t call them anything exceptional. Though it definitely depends on the game
K702 brothers all share a similar sound signature with 702 being the bright analytical one… imaging inaccuracies but very large soundstage and a more balanced out sound slightly being recessive in the bass and sub bass. Not a bad match build is decent should last but they can be deceptively expensive and are found on the used markets in mint condition usually for a hell of a lot cheaper.
Sundara, verticality champion in its price budget… imaging exceptional but not full laser extremely airy yet large soundstage. Exceptional fps gaming headphone but is riddled with company quality control problems and built rather cheap being known to break on people… Still if you have one post warranty or one that just works they are fantastic cans but this headphone 100% demands an amplifier
you tried a beyer connected to a motherboard that could not handle a beyer… this is a common misconception as this misleads a person due to the change in signature traits. Not all beyers are obscenely bright but most of them are quite a bit up there… 770 is quite forgiving in comparison to say the 990 and 880 has the most balanced approach of those three. Tygr is a 990 with much less treble yet all the aspects you want from 990 such as laser imaging and the very large soundstage… tygr is easily one of the budget champions due to just what its capable of in practically any of the FPS titles top that off with its comfort and built qualities being well known from being a beyer as all beyers headphones are built like tanks typically and use the standard beyer velour pad.
any form of EQ will demand more power… if your planning to do any of this your going to need an amp… you can’t just plug any headphone into a motherboard and expect it to run properly or sound correctly. EQ creates the need for more power through the form of preamplification to keep the sound balanced out.
rather surprised at this honestly but it does depend on the game and by person basis… 560 definitely isn’t bad.
If I had to rate the beyers as long as they have the proper amp and dac going for them in a game that can actually make full use of them… it would go from best to least… T1 2nd generation, DT 1990(less needing more aggressive placements in which 1990 is first), DT 990, Tygr 300R, DT 880, DT 770, Custom series.
as for levels of brightness? most to least. DT 990 is most apparent, DT 1990, T1 2nd gen due ot less in your face nature and curved drivers, DT 770, DT 880, Tygr 300r, and some of the custom series
I am rather curious on your setup that causes you to find the 560s better and what game… not to come off as aggressive just rather curious… I do appreciate the 560s I just found it a bit of a boring listen… too neutral for my taste so to speak.
so the g6 will drive a beyer to full as long as you have its software setup properly and placed into the higher gain modes… at the same time g6 has its own eq presets which can mess up a headphones sound signature… its software eq, crystallizer, scout mode, and 7.1 all tinker with a sound profile for the headphone… Nonetheless, g6 isn’t what I would call the best for “sound quality” as its just a good item for budget levels of powering good headphones. Its enough to get you what you need and thats about it… you’d need a good setup to get the better sound qualities.
absolutely this ^ lot of people mess up here especially with g6 due to all the internal enhancements… these can massively screw things up.
id hope not? senn are neutral as hell but more in the line of mid forward… granted 560s is definitely on the brighter side for a sennheiser.
leave 7.1 never use this on a beyer… anybody who claims a beyer is easy to drive either has too much money and lost some brain cells or just has no idea what they are talking about. Beyers use an older driver. they are absolutely not easy to drive… you cannot feasibly just plug a beyer 250 ohm into your motherboard and have it run at full… it just will not happen the special exception is those motherboards that have op-amps installed onto the mb but these are more expensive… even then they alter the sound signature of a beyer making it bassier and brighter than it has any right of being… top that off with potential distortion screwing up the levels of clarity.
they are not higher versions but different headphones. 560s is of the 500 series it has larger soundstage and good imaging… the 600 series while are incredibly good are very intimate on soundstage making them a harder recommendation to gamers who want to hear far away… nonetheless something like the 660s over there have incredibly imaging and sound fantastic as long as your okay with the signature.
from a sennheiser? speaking from experience? no. Sennheiser 560s or HD 660s are the ideal candidates with 58x jubilee being the center ground there. The step up from there is either the very expensive HD800S(endgame $1k+ headphone) or the Focal brand like the Elex
eh, more than likely recommend the padswap like pok mentions for this nonetheless yeah… it does work well. Better for vertical placements than the beyers and definitely isnt bad.
560s is just the good all rounder honestly. which is why I am surprised to see someone mention better than the 1990 which is designed to be as aggressively analytical as possible. the hifiman is definitely going to win out on vertical placements and air quality of the sound as is customary of their house sound… sennheisers though have a similar signature just more intimate to the ear… either one will work and its more of a side grade in this particular use case depends on what you need.
depends on the use case really… but yeah in most cases if allowed(as tourney regulations dont allow eq and other things like this) they will tinker with it to get the best picture and best sound placement.
lol cause most of those that are so great for gaming are bassy as hell or just suck big time for imaging or soundstage… most gamer headphones have practically nothing when it comes to staging so something simple like just ksc75 or shp9500 can wreck havoc on many gamers when it comes to placing a fps location.
not what I meant! just phrased badly. the sound being highlighted faster by the sound generated in the headophone, easier to pickup, more detailed, easier to isolate from other sounds in the environment.
As you mentioned with the amp as well, sound signature being distorted. Not a direct quote here but same principle information is lost/obscured on the way to the ear due to mmhmhm inadequate hardware.
still scared of the beyers though.
So i will reduce it to the:
• he400se • slightly worse than sundara in every aspect id assume
•Sundara • low qc on the manufacturer, great for vertical imaging
•hd560s • same relation as the he400se to sundara?
•hd660s • not sure on this ones build quality but, better horizontal imaging and soundstage than Sundara?
Last questions would be ok, can any of these take a drop on the floor? the hifiman poor qc sure wouldnt help also if take good care of these, id assume they can last you quite some time.
For amps what are we looking at here, do I need a amp or a dac/amp?
SOund hardware is the last thing i need to complete my pc setup so im willing to spend to be done with it or am i shooting myself in the foot for trying to go overboard?
gotcha, well if treble is an issue its safe to skip the beyers… the only other one I would say would be more than likely fine since its really not that bright whatsoever is the tygr over there… actually I can help show what I mean on this with the graphs of these…
that 770 250 ohm at top… tygr 300r bottom there… big difference on treble presence. Know that tygr does out perform 660s in fps games bout even on imaging… 560s is a toss up between the two… tygr has better capabilities than the sundara outside of sound quality, texture, some detail on the upper frequencies, and of course soundstage.
pretty much but its not as relaxed sounding in my opinion, I prefer the Sundara handsdown between the two.
bad qc just with the company so any of their products can be a bad egg which is troublesome but their natural sound trait makes them good for vertical placements, since you mention apex I can see this as a potential good thing in your case… not so much for warzone though.
similar signature, less air and less soundstage, bit better on imaging placements, more in your face or head rather than a big encompassing sound like hifiman like to have.
imaging? absolutely. Soundstage? hell no, the soundstage on the 600 series sennheisers as mentioned above are very very narrow or intimate. Senn 600 series are awful for games that need a large stage to produce results… they can still be used though at the least. 660S just sounds great, performs exceptionally well to tube amps for casual use, and has extremely good imaging. However, its price tag is close to an elex and its due to this that I would take the elex over the 660s if budget would allow… otherwise if it was gaming id take the 560s
sennheiser? yeah, you will scuff them up a bit if you do that but they won’t typically just outright break on you… they are made of plastic though so its not like they aren’t capable of breaking. Hifiman has a more metal or aluminum frame on them but they are immensely fragile. I did infact drop my sundara before and it took out the right speaker completely.
depends on budget but I would encourage one… at the very least a basic setup… something ranging between $120-$200 which is the usual entry level.
if you mean amp and dac. its good to get a good setup for that so its a one and done… amps and dacs are more investment than the headphone as the headphone will probably not outlast the amp/dac… probably
