trust me im not going to get into rona. but the US and UK are both outpacing all of the EU and every nation except israel by 30-80% vaccine per 100 people per day as of yesterday. not to mention we created it. anyways i dont think thats why schiit is slowing down. they are moving factories to a state with zero restrictions. it must be nice leaving cali for them and not just for the tax relief. @benx
Yeah, we are getting are schiit together(pun intended), with regards to taking rona seriously. We just started out kinda rough, thatās all I meant.
Unrelated, but it would be awesome if this new move lead to more changes that allowed them to cater to a more global audience. There are a lot of people out there who want there schiit, but have no access to it.
They are not moving. Theyāre opening a second location. All the smaller stuff (Magni, Modi, Modius, Magnius, etc) will be produced in TX, all the bigger more expensive stuff (Yggdrasil, Mjolnir, Urd, etc) will be done in CA.
@M0N quick question with the JOT 2, HE6se, he1000v2, or arya? he6se is 700 dollars used and new sometimes. arya used 1200 and 1600 for he1000v2 which is stretching it. JOT 2 should work with all. anyone else feel free to chime is used with JOT 2 i want an upgrade from ananda which i love
If you really like the ananda, to me moving to a hekv2 makes the most sense, it maintains the presentation, greatly improves on technicalities, and also gives a more balanced signature and tuning. Moving to the arya could also make sense although it will present a bit different due to the different style of driver (as the he1000v2 has closer driver tech to the ananda rather than the arya). The 1000v2 is also a better value as imo it offers a higher level of technical performance and refinement over the arya
The he6se is a nice headphone, but itās going to be pretty different from an ananda, although still an upgrade
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thanks im assuming the jot2 can power all of those? people argue about if the he6se is actually an upgrade to the ananda because its such an old driver but i also read that its not the same as the original as they are producing the new driver with new machinery and traces. the 1000v2 is such a large increase in price over the he6se if the he6se is as good as the arya even in a different way its worth it for 700 dollars used. idk i will look into the hexv2 i thought that was the same as ananda?
Yes but you will absolutely want to upgrade later on to really reap the benefits of these headphones, it will still be an upgrade from the ananda, but you are definitely going to be missing out on some performance
I mean itās a different sound for sure, but I think when properly powered the he6 still have improved technicalities over the ananda. But again different signature and different presentation
It trades blows, depends on what type of sound you are after and what your sonic priorities are after. On a jot 2 though I think the arya will pull more ahead than the he6
Nope, the hex v2 uses similar driver tech to the ananda but is a technical step up along with a change in signature to being more warmer smoother relaxed sounding overall
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thanks! cant wait to move up to summit fi. i guess some of the ZMF would also be an upgrade? seen some used around 1200 or so. would probably work well with the JOT2 i dont care if its anything like the ananda for sound im just looking for an technical upgrade from anywhere. its amazing as it is though the ananda.
Depends on the model, I think the aeolus isnāt an upgrade from a technical perspective, but an auteur or eikon could be imo. Verite most definitely.
I personally wouldnāt assume so, it would most likely be fine, but Iād probably want to grab a nice tube amp to make the zmf shine
I mean there are a lot of cans that can do that, I would at least want to have some sort of sonic direction and priorities
thanks i wont clog the thread anymore. the upgrade bug is here for sure though lol cant wait for the jot 2 from my heresy
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My Bifrost 2 and Jotunheim 2 are coming tomorrow.
I have the following to test and share:
- GoldPlanar GL2000 (filter removed mod)
- Sennheiser HD800 S
- STAX SR-L300 (Bifrost to Stax energizer)
- Thieaudio Clairvoyance
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anything yet? nothing for me. its been 4 days ā¦ =( are they that behind ?
Just got the notification - order shipped!
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Boo! I hope that gets fixed soon.
It took 8 days from when I ordered my unit to when I got the shipping notification.
Hey guys, to give you an idea on order timing, I ordered a Jotunheim 2 a few weeks ago. I received the shipping notice the same day and received the amp within a week. I ordered a Bifrost 2 last Friday afternoon and just received the shipment notification today.
Hope this is helpful.
I just ordered the Jot2 today and Iām pretty sure Iāll have it by early next week, at least thatās about how long all my other orders took.
Very much looking forward to hearing how my iFi Neo Dac sounds with it and how my headphones like the Arya, AP2000ti, and Z1R will sound. Iām also looking forward to having an amp that will be on the warm side and more āmusicalā because even though my SP200 THX and A50s are very clean and detailed music tends to get boring and dull after a while imo. That clinical sound signature can get old so Iām glad Iāll have something that sounds different yet I still expect good detail and dynamics.
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post your comparison on here. also waiting on my JOT 2 coming from a heresy idk if its worth a dac upgrade or not. i have the modi 3+ DAC not sure if i will notice a difference in DACS
Posted on head-fi as wellā¦
Day 4 Impressions and Amp/DAC Comparisons
Sorry if I went all out. TLDR; skip to the āConclusionā section
Constants
- HD800 S with Sennheiserās older model XLR cable
- iMac 2017
- Schiit Pyst (Straight Wire) XLR (10" pair); when connecting Bifrost to amps
- Schiit Pyst (Snake Oil) RCA (1 meter); when connecting Modi to amps
- Schiit USB A-B (1 meter); connecting computer to either DAC
- Highest gain setting for each amp
- Average sound level (or Leq) of 78 +/- 1dB (as measured using the same segment of a track before each trial, Bass and Drum intro from 0:54 to 1:15; measured using app called āSPLnFFTā on iPhone, with phone positioned about 1 inch away from both cups)
- Bifrost 2 ā XLR ā Jot 2 (9:30 clock position)
- Bifrost 2 ā RCA ā Jot 2 (10:30 clock position)
- Bifrost 2 ā XLR ā THX (9:30 clock position)
- Bifrost 2 ā RCA ā THX (10:30 clock position)
- Modi 2 Multibit ā RCA ā Jot 2 ("")
- Modi 2 Multibit ā RCA ā THX ("")
- Side note: the Jot and THX ended up with the same clock positions to achieve the same Leq. Interesting coincidence! Making comparing easier!
- Side note 2: Switching to Modi DAC had no impact on loudness; no need to change clock positions
- Side note 3: Volume ampād up at times about 30 minutes to 1 hour if a bit more thump is sought after.
- Side note 4: Volume pot must be dialed up depending on track; Classical especially needs further rotation
If I have energy, Iāll try a bit with other headphones.
DAC Comparing
For each DAC tested, I will run āA/Bā trials to compare each DAC using the same amp for each āA/Bā comparison. A āCā trial is made for comparing both DACs using the same interconnect.
DAC comparisons with Jotunheim 2
2A) Bifrost 2 ā (XLR balanced) ā Jotunheim 2 for truly balanced XLR output
2B) Modi 2 Multibit ā (RCA SE) ā Jotunheim 2 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
2C) Bifrost 2 ā (RCA SE) ā Jotunheim 2 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
DAC Observations
Bass & Drum Intro by Nils Lofgren Band from album āLiveā; 54 seconds onward for guitar placing and drums
- Wow. Once adjusted for loudness (Leq at 78 or so dB), I could NOT tell a difference between RCA SE input and XLR balanced input. As long as the Bifrost 2 and Jot 2 were connected, regardless of whether RCA or balanced, the difference wasnāt there. At first I thought there was a difference, since switching to XLR balanced input was so much more exciting at first; but as soon as I rotated the volume knob to where I knew 78 dB was measured, the excitement wasnāt there as much. I went back and forth, trying to turn the knob to the same positions over and over. Flip the input switchā¦turn the knob to correct volumeā¦flip inputā¦turn the knobā¦flip inputā¦turnā¦etcā¦ The more I did it, the more I felt my ears/brain just couldnāt hear the difference.
- Tried other tracks. Same thing.
- From here on, for sake of time and simplicity, Iām taking out RCA input trials from the Bifrost 2 and only testing the XLR input.
This Long Hour by Dead Letter Circus from album āThis is the Warningā
- Iām likewise having a hard time finding a difference between the Modi 2 Multibit and Bifrost 2 that canāt be accounted more for me turning the volume knob just slightly this way or that, higher or lower, between A/Bāing. Bifrost balanced in sounds great. Modi Multibit RCA in sounds great. I would be very hard pressed to attribute specific differences to the DACs here without falling to placebo or error.
- Example: At 1:20 in the track I thoughtthe Jotunheim had more detail, but was sharper and harsher on āSā sounds and treble sounds compared to the Modi 2 Multibit. But, after trying to dial down the Jotunheim just a tad, and trying to dial up the Modi just a tad, I found that the harshness and details I thought I was hearing differently in the Jot was actually very similar in the Modi. If someone blindfolded me and raised the volume just a tad on the Modi, I mightāve thought it was the Jot I was listening to - had I judged the Jot in the first place as being more detailed and taken it without a second thought.
- trying other tracksā¦without switching A and B too much. Letās see what extended listening sounds like on one before going to anotherā¦
String Quartet in F Major: II. Assez vif. TrĆØs rythmĆ© by Emerson String Quartet from album āDebussy & Ravel: String Quartetsā
- **First time Iām noticing a difference that persists despite volume adjustments!**Placebo? Maybe. I need to be blind to be sure of what Iām hearing. In this track, particularly at the start of the piece when the strings are plucking, the pluck sounds seem somehow more pronounced to me when going through the Bifrost 2 compared to the Modi 2 Multibit. Even when I lowered the volume when using the Bifrost, and tried raising the volume when using the Modi, I still felt that the string plucking had better character somehow when listening through the Bifrost. The Bifrost seemed ever so much more clear, for lack of a better word. The Modi felt more rounded. At leastā¦going through the Jot. Will Modi and Bifrost act differently through the THX? Can I really hear a difference in the first place? Or am I making an error? Who knows! But itās the first difference I feel Iāve noticed and after trying to adjust for things even when giving the weaker DAC a volume advantage. Interesting!
Shark City by Stephen Walking from album āShark City - Singleā
- My brain is going to pudding. I keep thinking I enjoy the Modi more here. Butā¦when I turn up the volume when using the Bifrost, I canāt tell if thatās really true anymore. And when I raise the Modi and lower the Bifrost, I canāt tell even more. At volume matched levels, itās too difficult here. I thought I preferred Modi, but it could be down to human error in knob adjustment when attempting to volume match. With so much concern for error, it doesnāt matter so much what I say I thought I heardā¦but I thought the Modi had better reverb and natural tone by the slightest margin. But please donāt even listen to that observation here, because that couldāve just been due to the Modi being slightly louder and me not knowing for sure. Jeez this is tough.
Touch Me by Brian Johnson et al. from album āSpring Awakening (Original Broadway Cast Recording) [Soundtrack from the Musical]ā
- Differences? Maybe Iām hearing those plucks of strings more clearly. But maybe Iām going mad. I feel like the Bifrost is better here than the Modi, but if it isā¦it isnāt so much that I can say is significant. Still, I feel like Iām hearing greater clarity or resolution on the reverb coming from strings when plucked. I feel that they have a better quality here again. Or maybe Iām looking for confirmation bias. hmmmā¦the brains a silly thing.
*****DAC comparisons with THX 789
1A) Bifrost 2 ā (XLR balanced) ā THX 789 for truly balanced XLR output
1B) Modi 2 Multibit ā (RCA SE) ā THX 789 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
1C) Bifrost 2 ā (RCA SE) ā THX 789 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
1A/B Listening Observations
*Due to me deciding to keep the Bifrost already, I decided to skip comparing it against the Modi with the THXā¦for now
Amp Comparing
For each amp tested, I will run āA/Bā trials to compare each amp using the same DAC for each āA/Bā comparison.
Amp comparisons using Bifrost 2
3A) Bifrost 2 ā (XLR balanced) ā THX 789 for truly balanced XLR output
3B) Bifrost 2 ā (XLR balanced) ā Jotunheim 2 for truly balanced XLR output
3C) Bifrost 2 ā (RCA SE) ā THX 789 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
3D) Bifrost 2 ā (RCA SE) ā Jotunheim 2 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
Amp Observations
Touch Me by Brian Johnson et al. from album āSpring Awakening (Original Broadway Cast Recording) [Soundtrack from the Musical]ā
- Woah! Honeymoon effect is nice. Suddenly hearing a different amp flavor has a very cool feeling. Iām listening to the vocals and instruments and thinking "oh this is very quiet (no background noise) and has utter clarity. Now I have to go back to Jot 2!..
- Going back to the Jot 2, I can see why people feel the THX 789 is āsterileā by comparison. Or, I think I hear what they mean. The Jot 2 seems like it has a bit more of a looser feel to the notes. A bit more sound surrounding the tones. Wellā¦maybe anyway. Once I try some volume adjustments back and forth between the amps, it could seem like they have similar qualities of clarity and low to no background noise.
Killing Time (feat. Perry Farrell) by Infected Mushroom from album āLegend of the Black Shawarmaā
- There it is. I can place that āsoulā of the Jot 2 here a bit more squarely. The electronic bass and deeper mids of the male vocals have a thicker sound on the Jot 2, while the THX 789 has a more neutral playback.
- Iām finding that this is really a matter of taste. I have historically preferred a neutral bright. Many people though prefer a neutral warm or warm. The Jot 2, compared to the THX 789, is warm on this track. It doesnāt lose on the detail though like a very warm headphone might. This Jot 2 amp gives warmth to the low end while maintaining detail of the track. This could give it a āsoulā where the 789 can feel sterile comparatively.
- I enjoy the 789 more at the starting 17 seconds, when thereās less going on in the track.
- I enjoy the Jot 2 more by around 30 seconds, when the track is busier. Maybe I enjoy the warmer signature here as it makes listening more relaxed than the 789. Though, the 789 isnāt exactly bad either there.
Roxanne (Remastered 2003) by The Police from album Outlandos dāAmour (Remastered)
- Stepped away from gear for a good 30 minutes to give ears a break
- Coming back fresh, starting with the THX 789ā¦sounds good. Switching to the Jot 2ā¦
- Trying to listen for the reverb of the drums fade into the background after each strike during the first 15 seconds, they both can be heard in high fidelity.
- Raising the volume beyond normal, to see if I pick up more in each (volume matching at this point by ear as Iām beyond 80 dB Leq easily). Iām at āloud comfortable,ā which really isnāt good for the ears for multi-hour listening sessions - but OK for shorter sessions and more enjoyable at times.
- Okā¦these two amps are hard to pick out on this track, when volume matched. Iād be stretching to say one sounds better or has a distinguishing trait on the blind.
Tessellating (feat. Oliver Dibley) by MUTO from album āTessellating (feat. Oliver Dibley) - Singleā
- At 0:55 onward. Listening in to the crystal clear mixing of this electronic track, from the stereo vocals to the distinctly separated impacts of the various digital instruments.
- Bass has a bit more of a bloom on the Jot, it seems to me
- Bass has a bit tighter punchy feel on the 789. I prefer the 789 here, personally, but can see how someone would enjoy the āsmootherā feel of the less punchy but filled out low end.
Early Morning Light by Sarah Jarosz from album āUndercurrentā
- Starting with THX 789. Canāt say much. Gotta switch to compare.
- Going to the Jotā¦the warmth or bloom of sounds seems to come out again. Maybe I needed more time to hear a difference. Her voice, the acoustics, I can feel that bloom here more than in some other tracks.
- The 789 comes off to me as closer in to the head, but in a way that I enjoy. The transparent clarity of it, what people have said is truer to recordings, is appealing to me. I appreciate the transparency and intimate feel to the music itself without flavor. Iām leaning toward keeping it. Let the headphones flavor things, I suppose. I got a tube amp coming that I can have for a laid back feel anyway.
Amp comparisons using Modi 2 Multibit
4A) Modi 2 Multibit ā (RCA SE) ā THX 789 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
4B) Modi 2 Multibit ā (RCA SE) ā Jotunheim 2 for NOT truly balanced XLR output
4A/B Listening Observations
Conclusions (for my ears)
XLR input (truly balanced) VS RCA inputs (though XLR output for headphones, NOT truly balanced)
TLDR; Balanced or SE inputs donāt matter for my ear. Iād only care about the output being XLR since the port has higher volume capacity.
Once volume matched, I had a very difficult time discerning if there was a noticeable difference between XLR true balanced and XLR feeding from SE inputs. This in itself was something nice to discover for myself. Maybe if someone could control for loudness in their own chain like I did, they would hear differently, but the differences of greater āmusicalityā I felt when switching to XLR inputs (for truly balanced) may have been explained simplyā¦when switching from RCA to XLR, the loudness instantly raises. Louder means you hear more detail, you get more thump, and you get a quick rush of excitement from it all. I have no reason to input RCA over XLR into the amp. Iāll continue to use the XLR output though, since this output has a higher power and is what I used to test today. Maybe Iāll test 1/4" SE out vs XLR out someday.
If YOU can hear a difference with SE and balanced inputs from your DAC source, all the power to you. For sake of this post, Iām only relaying what I personally hear. Iām not saying you all canāt. Itās just me.
Bifrost 2 or Modi 2 Multibit?
TLDR; Keeping the Modi, returning the Bifrost? I canāt tell a difference enough, or can I? Do I keep the Bifrost for peace of mind? Iāll probably keepā¦no Iāll return! Waitā¦keep! GAH! Itās better future proofing! Yea!
Look, at best interpretation and moments where I feel I notice a difference, I feel like I want to keep the Bifrost. Even if it does cost $700 (Jesus Christ thatās a lot to spend when I already have a great Modi Multibit!), it feels like one of those purchases that I wonāt regret over the long term in this hobby. In the long run, thatās not a lot of money (relatively).
Did I hear a difference all the time? No. Did I think I heard string plucking better from the Bifrost 2? Yes. On that test alone, I would keep the Bifrost 2 over the Modi 2 Multibit if for nothing else but peace of mind. It may be placebo (since I knew what I was listening to, it wasnāt blind). But still an interesting finding for myself. The Modi 2 Multibit was honestly not night and day from the Bifrost 2 though in most situations. I would be very hard pressed to say the Bifrost is going to be worth it for most people.
But, if youāre like me in your lifeās journey through this hobby, you may be in a place now where you just want to have a very solid DAC in your chain that you hardly ever - if ever - need to consider upgrading. The Bifrost takes care of some stuff the Modi doesnāt:
- Has balanced output to feed into an amp for a truly balanced experienced (whether or not you can hear that difference, it feels nice to have; future proofing and peace of mind)
- Has something going on inside that makes it maybe sound more resolute than its Modi Multibit cousins (my biggest peace of mind)
- Bifrost has XLR output AND RCA outputā¦which means I can have my STAX energizer or future tube amp plugged in with RCA while keeping my XLR capable solid state amp plugged in with XLR. i.e. less plugging and unplugging in my listening sessions.
- Bifrost has a nice little remote thatā¦wellā¦doesnāt really do much good for me except the mute button. Minor reason to pick the Bifrost. But a nice perk nonetheless.
THX 789 or Jotunheim 2?
TLDR; You may prefer either one depending on taste. I prefer the 789ās more neutral, closer to my ears sound.
Both are great and damn similar in sound signature when volume matched on many tracks. But, when tracks are different, the Jot 2 is laid back and somewhat ābloomyā where the 789 is straightforward, neutral, and can seem āsterileā to some. Both are powerhouses. Both turn to nearly the same rotation for volume matching.
The Jot 2 does over XLR pre outputs, so it may be functional in some use cases where the 789 isnāt. Many headphone enthusiasts like myself donāt need that output, so it doesnāt do much for me.
I really wanted the Jot 2 to be my preferred amp due to it matching my new preferred DAC, the Bifrost 2. But where I can say returning the THX 789 would give me return remorse, thinking of returning the Jot 2 doesnāt give me that feeling. Donāt get me wrong, the Jot 2 IS a great amp. Itās just not my amp personally. I quite like comparatively less warm 789 over the Jotās. I can see how many many people will love the Jot 2. You may love it yourself if you try it! Thatās not to say it is warm compared to tubes maybe, or other amps that can be said to be very warm if there are amps as suchā¦but the Jot 2 has a bloomy low end, even if the high end is clear and resolving, so that bloomy low end gives the whole experience a āwarmerā feel to it. Or, it CAN feel warmer, compared to the 789, particularly when there is a good amount of low end reverberating throughout a track.
Take this all with a grain of salt for so many reasons, but maybe especially considering that all the above commentary was done while using the HD800 S. And have an even bigger grain of salt for the chance that at any point my, or anyone elseās, attempts to volume match may have had human errors. Tiny dial movements can change volume and qualities a lot at times!
What I am keeping
Keeping Bifrost 2 and THX 789. Returning Jot 2 (taste preference is all). Stashing or finding use for my old Modi Multibit.
Bonus Round: Quick GL2000 (paper filters removed mod) Headphone Testing
Listening to the GL2000 between both amps makes me think too how much the differences in these two amps are very small compared to wearing two different headphones. Still, in this hobby we fine tune one thing after another until we have a chain that serves our tastes best for whatās in the market and whatās in our budget.
Still going to keep the THX 789.
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Iāve had the 789 and the Jotunheim 2 (both with the Bifrost 2 using an Elex). I sold the 789, but that is why there are 32 flavors. There is no wrong answer. Only your ear can tell you, your truth. Thank you for taking the time to test and write all this up for the community.
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