did tranchjim not just use an off the shelf DD?
1 Like
I canât understand why there is alot of controversy . No one can deny that this guy is exceptional in this hobby i think thatâs a problem for some . He redefined every prise bracket he enter to . I donât have the mele cz the tuning of this iem is not my thing . But no one can deny that the mele didnât redefined her price bracket . Now we start to see that there is some recs over the overly recommended aria like t3 plus and mele ⊠and non of those have the mele metal shel look and feel . mele they just look gorgeous . bl03 was 30$+ with crap box accessories + cable . And now they are 23$ just knowing that the mele is the direct upgrade.
Now a f oxygen for 100$ are u kidding me this guy is smart and some are getting jealous cz his favorite reviewer wasnât as smart or they have the oxygen like me . This drive he was on sale in AliExpress for internity and no one get this idea to make affordable oxygen even Chinese brains . Not fuck u bass . This guy is fuck you expensive for no reason . I was telling my self that im not going to spend more then 220$ for a single dd and now cz of him no more then 100$ so no more single dd cz i have the 220$ version of the orina .
What is tanchjim oxygen its a metal shell that it will never give me a good fit + 1 dd . What he have a good fitting metal shell + better looking with the same DD and that is proved looking to the graph so its the same iem and i think its better tuned in the treble . He is happy for us he is happy sharing his brilliant idea a 99$ oxygen for us people with small wallets and we are 95% in this hobby cz of that no one will care about 1 or 2 people refrain to buy it cz of personal reasons , this iem will sell as much as mele . What he will get from that price . Lets say 50$ for the drivers 40$ for tripowin . 10$ for him and we gain 120$ + good look and fit . What are u talking about people cz even if u donât like him and u donât want to buy his stuff no one of u will buy the oxygen in olina existence cz he will feel stupid . Hope u donât buy it secretly . Now i know what why did u said about ** . If something is good is good. and i just buy good stuf for the lowest price possible i donât buy cz someone is my daddy
7 Likes
Speaking the truth.
If Olina sounds like Oxygen, heck yeah it will be an easy rec
7 Likes
What you are saying is true from consumer perspective, but only with a short perspective. Copying already proven solution is an easy and safe path - you wonât go wrong and clients would be happy too - that is true. You may say that if the same can be done for less than 50% of the price and the margins are way too high.
But in the long run you need to take a look on what does it take to release the OG product like O2. There are couple of scenarios what happened:
- it was blind luck with no tuning that took place. Tanchjim bought off-the-shelf driver, put it into a shell and sold - doubtful at best
- Tanchjim released several IEMs and O2 clicked - not true (you can check tanchjim portfolio). Still if that would be the case it would take multiplied amount of money because of all the failures in the market
- Tanchjim invested in R&D - tuners, testers, engineers to develop and test and verify this particular solution - that is most likely case. It took money and time (=extra money) to do so.
Looking at the situation as an investment - it may not be worth to invest in development of new solutions (tunings, configurations etc) for companies as Tanchjim (which is risky as hell ==expensive) if after all this someone would go the easy path.
It applies to all markets/products in general.
I mean all in all I wluld still consider this Olina as it is so tempting to buy as it most likely end up sounding great. But as someone who is working on a product that costed millions to develop and dozens of failures happened in this time it hurts if you think that someone comes and takes the end result and do it for cheap. Luckily in my business patents and IP really protects the developer 
7 Likes
As a short note - having Olina marketed (and done) as improved O2 (which is not perfect even in tuning probably) would sound much better than saying it is O2 for cheap. The first would mean you did something more for the world than just copy the best
2 Likes
copying the best is doing something for the world if youâre driving down the price to 1/3rd of what it is originally, iâm so confused by your arguments:
we should intentionally buy more expensive, of equal or worse quality products, at 3* the price, because they paid for R&D to create that product? the tanchjim oxygen has been out for what like 2-3 years, and good audio doesnât go bad itâs not like it hasnât had time to establish itself in the market or that the people that already purchased the products are going to throw their products away, not to mention tanchjim themselves are basing their tuning off the harman-target, which was also at some point expensive to get research on, most likely without compensation from companies that use the harman-target as a basis for tuning ie moondrop. i donât think itâs on the consumer to subsidise R&D for a company, and that the company should have extensive research on the break-even for their costs to develop/sell products and whether or not itâs a worthwhile endeavour, which based on how many people have recâd the oxygen since itâs released, itâs fair to assume theyâve made a buck from their time in the spotlight, let competition thrive to create better products
8 Likes
I think both sides are fair arguments, one coming from the developerâs end, the other coming from the consumerâs perspective. This has been a long-running debate in commerce and businesses.
However, letâs not put Oxygen and Olina in to an EITHER/OR situation, because one is out for years, the other isnât even available yet for feedback. This was where the whole controversy started at the beginning, how one is being marketed off the expense of the other. 
And Iâm not saying that Olina canât match or top O2, but simply as a reasonable consumer, looking out for reviews first before purchasing is the most rational thing to do if (1) one has limited budget, or (2) one has too many IEMs already. For those early purchases who can do it without those considerations, more power to you. But donât stop people from voicing their opinions.
13 Likes
Donât get me wrong. I donât urge on buying worse because it was first, but I want to take a look on the big picture. Going for cheap/easy solutions ruined the economics and supply chains in most of our countries, because in short run it benefited the consumer if you know what I mean.
Straight up copying does not lead the world to better place than it is. If you already have O2 driver, know what is good about that and what is not - improve it a little at least.
Tanchjim probably made its profit on Oxygen I agree.
2 Likes
do you not think price is a factor to improve on? and not only that, but THE most important factor to improve on? i think for most people price will always be the limiting factor to a purchase, ironically HBB is probably one of the only people on this forum where price wouldnât be a particularly big factor for his purchase decisions for iems lol
4 Likes
I mean yes - it is fair improvement for the end user to cut down on price.
I think that Tanchjim screwed up their supply chain.
I think that competition makes mostly good for the world.
I think fair competition makes the world even better.
It is also not like IEM is a product of first need, so by making it cheaper you are doing a world a big favour if you know what I mean
2 Likes
First thing first he didnât copy nothing this driver is produced buy a company and he was for sell for along time and tanchjim didnât move a finger so everything is legal and I donât think there is a patent for tuned things there is for a new type of drivers DD are older then adam . And if i can buy it from AliExpress and do like short bus did why hbb donât use it tun it and sale it . like u get the driver and u tun it ur self or u ask or wait for someone to do it for u . So its a discovery not a copy if he said i did discover a company that make drivers graph like oxygens and i will tun one for sell no one will say u are coping oxygen and u will all know that this driver is the same on sell in AliExpress but when he said its the same material and a copy of the oxygen driver u start talking ethics go to short bus and evryone who bought this driver and ask him do destroy it . More About ethics they have improved nothing in the oxygen for a f 3 years waiting for what ? Then they come up with hana v2 a oxygen with more bass less treble = less resolution âand people think its a nother driverâ with the same fit problem for me its a good lesson for them to stay in the competition = listen to the community . And tanchjim fix ur tunning as we can see in the olina its not the maximum out of the driver
2 Likes
the necessity of a product is usually correlated to the elasticity of a product, and can vary from income elasticity or price elasticity but both are similar (based on how much money someone earns, income, vs the price of a product) an iem would be an example of an elastic product, where price is a huge factor for consumers (in that if itâs too expensive theyâd not buy it and vice versa) and things like healthcare, heating, housing are generally inelastic, where youâd need to buy/have them no matter what (with weird caveat exceptions) - this being in relation to your comment about an iem being a first need, youâre right
i think our differences lie in that i think a design from another company is still fair competition, and it sucks some companies donât file for patents and study on copyright/IP law, but companies rise and fall and i think thatâs good overall, itâd be a boring place if every company had been around for 200 years and once they fail, theyâd fail hard
it was nice talking to you though i think IP laws are always interesting conversation 
2 Likes
If for some reason Tanchjim goes out of business because of this IEM, then that would be pretty sad. I donât know their financials but I doubt that would happen. Maybe it would make them release am O2v2 or something. Or just flat-out drop the price of the O2.
But we still donât know how this new IEM even sounds. Only handful of people in the world have heard it, so we need to wait. I mean how many IEM use the exact same Knowles BA drivers or the same e-stat drivers? Yet they somehow sound different.
1 Like
Just one thing out of my head. I love the idea of collaborations in our hobby, but there are 3 levels of it and I really admire the successful implementation of the 1st especially:
- doing the IEM from the scratch. Selection of driver, tuning, selection of housing looks etc. See Mele - beautiful and great set that contributed to the community as nothing else in last year probably (KZ Zex pro is partially in this category, and nothing else that I recall. Very hard and risky road though
- reworking/improving already existing IEM. Safe bet in general and easy road. Very good for the community in general (see B2D, Yume, probably DQ6 X HBB)
- creating already existing solution for cheap (in hard word - copying). Yes, you know my opinion on that already
I wonât throw a stone on any buyer/developer of the solution (HBB), that would be hypocritical. I just have doubts about the background of this story, you know?
1 Like
I think patent law is very interestingtopic - some things which would make the world benefit at whole should not be patented like treatments (which are in fact impossible to be patented IRL luckily), medicine (very hard as clinical trials takes millions of $ and are risky), breakthrough solution in food and water processing, environmental/resource processing methods developments.
Others - why not
Yes they did.
4 Likes
Fair enough 
It was started (idea) in a Discord DM that is there to be someday shared.
(will edit out other userâs nameâŠthough he should be proud)
The Mele fit so good
Imagine if the 02 fit as good 
Step 1 (identify driver) did that with help of several 02 owners.
(yesâŠ02 owners were in on the idea)
Step 2 Find out if that driver is available, is it public domain?
Yes it is sold online on several sites
The factory that made it still makes it for others as it was always an off the shelf item
Purchase contract = Step 2 complete
STEP 3
It did not work with MELE nozzle and fat body but loved a tiny shell like the 02 as this mock up proved
However the whole point was not cloning 02 because we could have stopped here
The point was fit. I love 02 and never got a good fit that allowed me to move around without breaking the seal Many folks sold 02 not because of sound but because of fit.
So step 3 was far from complete.
Returning to Mele shell
try another (Fail)
change nozzle widthâŠbingo
Then I had a healthy debate with the folks in China.
They were not on board, they have friendships with people you assume are rivals.
Shenzen is a giant Cooperative community based on unspoken rules of respect. A special economic zone in China. 1 of 4 I believe.
I said:
- Olina is a âcloneâ
- Some people want the original (bag , knife, whatever) cuz they can afford, or personal policy)
- 02 will get a sales bump and it is already getting a rejuvenation online (ask your friends in Shenzen)
cuz it looks like the whole thing has given 02 a bump just by talking about a 2019/20 set again and often (That turned out to be trueâŠthe sale bumb)
*Many of my viewers cannot afford $250+ - Others are concerned by fit (as they should be) it fit me poorly and many have said same
(itâs weak point) - BTW , you said you took a walk to a factory and made a deal right?
This is going in another shell. ( That umâŠhappens a lot amiright??)
I got all the chats on the birth of the idea. Itâs my idea. Iâll defend it proudly
As if telling my audience which is majority budget centric and living in Mexico, Brazil, Philippines and AmericaâŠas if they care about a companyâs profits or mine.
They wanna know what it does good, why?
Is it better than 02?
(Better? Mine fits better, SQ thatâs up to you, I think so. Better seal, better low end)
Is it worth buying the 02 at $250?
(is buying an original tried and true idea that stands the test of time ever a bad idea?)
14 Likes
Working with suppliers in Asia for a different industry, i can totally see that being true.
Totally agree. If you get the O2 sound quality with good fit, thatâs a winner. Whoever disagrees with that has never tried the O2.
Sell it for whatever price you want. My guess is that Tanchjim figured how much margin they could get on the O2, and ended up with $270 number. If you and your partners can make money by selling ot for $100 then itâs all good for you and all good for the consumer.
3 Likes
A cheaper Chinese copy of a Chinese productâŠ.Irony personified 
2 Likes
Thank you for this background, it makes it much more clearer for me (it may have been clear for your followers on discord, but I am too old and limited for using this app)
Improvement on the fit is great improvement and justification of starting of the project indeed I just understood in the beginning that the main idea was to make a copy of oxygen for cheaper and if you have already a shell design of Mele, then it is to be used for the cost-saving purpose as a main reason.
All those little improvements over O2 could be emphasised in marketing materials and communication to make Olina even more attractive in my opinion though, but it is just me
Small joke: Just a little shame it is not Tanchjim X HBB Nitrogen in the end (as oxygen lite)
BTW
Actually I always had a little trouble with fit on Meles as they do not go as deep into may canal as other quasi-customs like Teas. I needed to juggle a lot with tips to get something comfortable at least, but I guess I am in minority.
3 Likes