TH-X00/TR-X00/E-MU Teak/Denon biodynamic general discussion

[A_COC0NUT]

I’m finally done with all my obsessives pad swapping. I’ve been comparing 6 pad options for my TR-X00 PH over the past week or so and I feel like I’ve gotten a good enough grip on the situation to share my thoughts.

Disclaimers:

• I have no treble sensitivity.
• I have long hair so I can not guarantee a perfect seal was achieved with all pads.
• My X00s have the Lawton Driver-side tune-up installed.
• For any pads that don’t have built in attenuation ring I used my Ovaltine rings.
• I’m not going to mention sibilance because (to me) they all had the same amount and only in songs that I know to be sibilant recordings, otherwise they are fine for me.

I primarily used these two song for testing as I know them well and I find they are good at exposing shortcomings and highlighting proficiencies (at least according to what I like). I have both songs in CD quality FLAC.

• WELCOME TO THE WORLD, Battle Tendency O.S.T. [Musik], Taku Iwasaki
• Rip & Tear, Doom (2016) OST, Mick Gordon

My test set up was:
Foobar2000 WASAPI Push > Topping D10 > Asgard 3

OK, Time to actually start talking about the pads, starting with the stock pads. I’m going to be brief with these since most any X00 owner has them and knows what they sound like. The treble is forward but not too much and I find its only harsh with harsh recordings, so it won’t smooth anything over for you. The mids are rather full sounding for a V-shaped headphone, but there is a dip around 3k. The bass is just what you would expect from the under $500 bass kings. Big, impactful, and very well detailed. And it’s not just one note bass, it can portray different bass notes as well as hit you in the head with the quantity. The sound stage is fairly narrow, but nothing I would personally complain about. The big problem with these is they are terribly uncomfortable for me. My ears are on the larger side and these press on them in such a way that is causes pain after about an hour, sometimes less. The foam is stiff and the protein leather is not the best feeling and gets oily easily. The shape is also a bit strange and I find makes the fit feel weird.

Next is the Accessory House Global (AHG) stock style pads. These are basically just leather stock pads. There are only two differences I can tell. First, the mids are a tough warmer, but only a touch. The second, they are more comfortable. The foam is a nice and soft memory foam and the leather is pretty nice, especially for the price. They are also a more normal flat-faced shape as apposed to the stock pads with all the rounded bulges on the face of the pad. Like I said, these are pretty much just a strait replacement for stock pads but with better comfort. If you really like the stock sound and just want a bit better comfort, these are the pads for you.

Next are the Dekoni Lambskin X00 pads. I linked the protein leather versions because these are technically a Drop exclusive, but if you email Dekoni they will sell you a pair for $70. I actually quite like these pads. They are the warmest option (only a bit warmer than the AHG stock style) and seem to have the least forward treble. Its still forward treble and will not fix a harsh track or anything, but it feels a bit more relaxed. This is helped by the extra warmth these add. It makes the sound a bit more full and I like it. The bass is about the same (a pattern you will notice) but the soundstage is a bit wider since the pads are thicker. The wider sound stage I feel relieves any sense of congestion or claustrophobia that the stock pads and AHG stock style pads have. The comfort is what I would call the minimum for my ears. The ear hole is JUST big enough for all but my ear lobe to fit and, thanks to the very nice memory foam, they stay comfortable for quite a while. The leather is the shinier kind so that could bother some, but not me.

Next are the AHG ZMF style pads. These are ALMOST identical to the ZMF Ori pads I will talk about next, but the ear hole is a few mm shorter and a few mm wider. Also the pads are a few mm thinner. When I say a few mm I mean 2 or 3 at most. The other difference seems to be build quality. While the AHG pads are perfectly well built, they are not as pristine as my proper ZMF pads. The foam is two pieces and one piece is a slightly smaller diameter than the other, causing a ridge on the outside of the pad. This is purely cosmetic, but worth mentioning since it suggests (at least to me) that these are technically knock off ZMF pads. Good knock offs, mind you, but still. Since I’m hear I’ll do comfort next. These are about the same as the ZMF pads for comfort, but the foam is a bit stiffer and I personally find this to make them a bit less comfortable. As for sound, these are about the same in the highs as the stock pads. Maybe a touch more treble but it also seems clearer. Probably due to the larger hear hole if I had to guess. The mids are kind of recessed, especially in the lower mids. This, in combination with a noticeable bump in the bass (specifically at 50Hz), leads to what I feel is a kind of hollow and slightly bloated sound. I don’t really like these pads when I have real ZMF pads and no other pad messes up the sound imo. They are cheap, very comfy, and may work better with the ebony or teaks, but I don’t like them for my PH. Almost forget to mention that these have a wider sound stage than any pad mentioned previously.

Up next are the ZMF Ori Protein pads (you will have to select the material you want on the page). These are very nice pads. Sound wise they have the clearest treble of them all. Its about the same as the AHG ZMF style pads (so a bit more than stock), but seems a bit clearer. The lower mids are still a bit recessed compared to the stock style pads and Dekoni pads, but not as much as the AHG ZMF style pads. The bass is also about the same as the stock and Dekoni pads, so these don’t have the hollow and bloated sound that the AHG ZMF style pads do. These are also the most comfortable so far. They have the tallest ear hole and my ears fit without any problem. The foam is a bit softer than the AHG ZMF style pads so that is good for me and the protein leather is very, VERY nice. I almost like this material better than some of my real leather. These are pretty much the best comfort of any of the pads I’ve tried, especially for extended periods of time.

A side note about my Ori pads, I’m not actually entirely sure that these are protein leather. I ordered lambskin, but noticed when I got them that they are less shinny than the lambskin pads pictured on the website or shown in Youtube videos (particularly Zeos’ ZMF motherload unboxing). I emailed ZMF and they said that they use a more matte finish leather for comfort reasons. I thought this was the case until I got my Ori Hybrids (lambskin with suede face) and the lambskin on these is as shinny as in pictures and videos. This leads me to believe that my Ori pads are in fact protein leather which is strang since protein was not (and still is not) an option in the dropdown for materials on the purchase page. I’ll attach a picture or two below. Maybe @Zachary_Mehrbach can shed some light on this situation for me?
(Ori hybrds on headphone. Mystery Ori pads in between)

Thanks for any help Zach

So last but not least, The ZMF Ori Hybrid pads (same link as other Ori pads).
I have very little to say about these as they seem to be almost identical to the Protein(?) Ori pads. The only difference is the comfort. The suede face is wonderful. It does not get itchy or hot like leather and pleather can and is so soft I want to upholster my entire life with this material. Spoiler, these make the normal Ori pads obsolete to me.

In conclusion, the X00 stock pads are basically obsolete in my eyes as the AHG stock style pads replace them with better comfort and an almost identical sound. The AHG ZMF style pads are not terrible, but I don’t like how they sound, so they are out as well (Thankfully I use them on my DT770 250ohm). The Dekoni Pads are a great option if you don’t have large ears and want a slightly warmer and more relaxed sound that is still rather similar to stock. The Ori pads are great, but just go the extra step and get the Hybrids. They are so comfortable and sound about identical to the normal Ori pads. The Ori Hybris are my personal winners, with the Dekoni Lambskins as my second place since it is a different but equally good sound to me, I just prefer the Ori sound personally.

Here are the rankings

Comfort:

1. Ori Hybrid
2. Ori Protein
3. AHG ZMF Style
4. Dekoni Lambskin
5. AHG Stock Style
6. Stock

Sound:

1. Ori Hybrid (sound the same as Protein)
2. Ori Protein (sound the same as Hybrid)
3. Dekoni Lambskin
4. AHG Stock Style
5. Stock
6. AHG ZMF Style

Overall:

1. Ori Hybrid
2. Dekoni Lambskin
3. AHG Stock Style
4. Ori Protein (replaced by Ori Hybrids)
5. AHG ZMF Style (Better comfort than stock pads but worse sound)
6. Stock (Better sound than AHG ZMF Style pads but the worst comfort)

Thank you reading this long and slightly rambling post. Now that this is finally over, it’s time to mess around with pad swapping my DT770 250ohm (please help me. I can’t stop myself.)

[A_COC0NUT]

I just took a look back and only the first 1/8th of this thread is actually about the X00 line being discontinued. Might it be worth renaming this thread to something like

“TH-X00/TR-X00/E-MU Teak/Denon biodynamic general discussion (formerly Drop discontinuing Fostex TR-X00 line)”

so it’s easier for people to find what is I think inarguably this forum’s primary discussion thread for this topic? Just a thought.

@M0N @Ohmboy @WaveTheory

[Davidibiza]

And… Done. Any regular member can change the title of a thread.

[A_COC0NUT]

Oh cool. I did not know that. Thanks.

[BlueRedYellow]

Has anyone tried putting an open back 3.5in grill on their X00/E-MU?

[A_COC0NUT]

Fostex TR-X00 Ebony

[Ebony] Tah-Dah!

[FireLion44]

Got a barely used D2000, it’s nice. I used to have one way back when followed by a TH610 and EMU.

Sounds better than I remember. Might do a removable cable mod and Denon like wood cups.

[ValentineLuke]

That’s awesome. Congratulations.

[A_COC0NUT]

Fuck I love Purple Heart.

[BlueRedYellow]

I hope we see more Fostex headphones in the same family in the future. Here’s my PH with Dekoni Nuggets, Dekoni Sheepskin, and a replacement cable I got off eBay!

[Droccord]

So does anyone know how the EMU purpleheart cups compare to the regular purpleheart cups? I have the Ebony version and I purchased the Ebony and rosewoods from EMU, I have seen a few people getting the other cups from EMU but seems like no one has bought the purpleheart cups.

[A_COC0NUT]

From what I’ve read about the E-MU they are pretty much identical. The only reason to get the purple heart cups is if you want more of a V-shaped sound.

[BlueRedYellow]

I took off my sapele cups to investigate to see if the cavity was similar to the one inside my x00PH. The sapele cups have a steeper angle on the inner cup wall, and the x00ph has a slightly higher side wall. I think the X00PH have a larger internal cavity than the E-MU Sapele cups, but still less than something like the teak cups. If E-MU uses the same machining process for their PH cups as my sapele cups, then it might actually have a different sound than that of the X00PH.

Here is a picture of all 3 of the cup variants I have, from teak, to X00PH, to the sapele.

[A_COC0NUT]

I never new the Teaks had a larger cavity. I doubt the PH vs sepele shape difference would cause a sound change. The only way that would matter is if the volume was significantly different.

[Deleeh]

Hello,
Here a picture from the Emu Rosewood and Ebony cups.

Ebony

Rosewood

I find Emu made the better cups.
Also from the sound point of view, they have made significant improvements after the conversion of the cups.
Unfortunately I can only compare the terrible Fostex Tr x00 mahogany cup.
I would say Emu makes the better cup if you are not from the same manufacturer.

[Hallibart_Aery]

Hey everyone,
It’s been a while since I last wrote here. Lately, I’ve been playing with the thought of selling my th-x00 and buying an e-mu teak instead. Do you guys think there’s a legitimate chance I would vastly prefer the teak over the ebony I’m using right now (which was also made by emu)? For a recap, I didn’t really like the sound signature of the original Fostex mahogany cups I had, but I really like the ebony cup I’m using right now.

By the way, the last time I wrote I was about to buy some more earpads highly rated here to review them, which I eventually did, but never ended up actually writing the reviews because my experience was the exact opposite of everyone else’s here: None of them came even close to the originals. At least by the end I was able to identify what it was that I really liked in the original earpads, as it turns out, that sound was thanks to the protein leather. It’s unfortunate I chose to start my journey with everything that wasn’t protein leather. I am yet to give a try to the Dekoni protein leather pads, but I’ve got a feeling that’s going to be the last one for me.

[Deleeh]

Hello,
Buy the Deconi Rings and add them to the pads you have bought.
You will hear significant differences.
I have always tested the cushions with and without rings and found that without the rings the cushions sounded more and more spongy.
With the rings the spongy was gone and it unfolded.

Make sure that the rings are aligned to the seam when you install them, so you get the best result.

Concerning the headphones Tr x00 and Emu teak.
The headphones are the same in terms of construction and drivers.
The secret is really the wood.
So wood hardness, volume, wood species.
If you believe the testers you find on the net, many people say that the Emu Teak is a mixture of Ebony and Rosewood.

I think you would probably only hear the nuances, but if that is worth $500 you will have to decide.
As a hint I can only give you the rosewood cups.
They are more V-shape in their signature than the Ebony and should be more W shape.
You might like it better if you go more in the direction of the V-shape.
I noticed this in my conversions when I changed the Denon to rosewood and the Tr x00 to Ebony with the Emu cups
The Rosewood is a bit more present and lively and brighter than the Ebony, which is a bit backwards and darker and not as present.
Unfortunately, Emu does not sell the teak cups, they know why, and would have encouraged me to buy them.
In the end everyone has to decide for himself if the Emu teak is worth buying.
Who already has a lot of mods behind him probably does not.
Since you only notice nuance.
If you are flirting with teak you will of course hit the mark if you have never had anything to do with Fostex and co.

[Hallibart_Aery]

Hey, thanks for the reply.
Regarding the Dekoni rings, I did try every earpad I have both with and without them, and yes, I agree that they do make a very significant difference, still, none of the combinations seemed satisfactory to me.
If the difference between the Th-x00 mahogany and the emu ebony cup is anything to go by, those were not just nuances, they sounded like completely different headphones to me, that’s the only reason why I’m still curious about the teak. If the people here hadn’t convinced me to give the ebony cup a try, I would probably have sold them by now.

[WaveTheory]

I upgraded my X00 with Lawton cups and use ZMF Ori hybrid pads with dekoni attenuation rings. If your budget allows, I strongly recommend reaching out to Lawton. They offer numerous wood types so you’ll be able to find your desired sound. Here’s a thread where you can read about my Lawton upgrade.

[A_COC0NUT]

The Teak are often considered the best of the 1 tesla foster driver family. If you are really curious then I would get the Teak before selling your ebony and see which you like best. It’s also worth mentioning that the Teak will either have an attachmeed cable or use the rattle prone 3.5 connectors (this is why drop has only done the attached cable recently).

As for pads, what is it you don’t like about the pads you’ve tried do far?