Actually static electricity can transfer a high (very short-lived) current but it will discharge so very quickly that the amount of power transferred over will still be very small and it seem like clearly our bodies handle say 200 ns of long-term deadly current better than if it had stuck around for longer.
(Ampere measure how many electrons passes within one second but a static discharge happen during a very short time.)
" For modelling the effect of static discharge on sensitive electronic devices, a human being is represented as a capacitor of 100 picofarads, charged to a voltage of 4000 to 35000 volts. When touching an object this energy is discharged in less than a microsecond.[7] While the total energy is small, on the order of millijoules, it can still damage sensitive electronic devices. Larger objects will store more energy, which may be directly hazardous to human contact or which may give a spark that can ignite flammable gas or dust." So it would seem not all that many electrons actually travel over. I have a very poor understanding of that though because to me it would kinda seem like shouldnât all electrons be of the same amount of charge? And that higher relative potential/voltage/whatever would just mean holding more of them? It seem like thatâs not the case but I find it hard to understand.
Received my P1s from linsoul. Thanks for rec Z. Super satisfied. Am still a bit concerned at how the earphones bounce around in the box during shipment tho.
Remember to take into consideration that if you want to raise by dB then you need to remember the rating is only at 1Khz (or at whatever frequency the earphones etc were rated at because that is where you are getting all your other numbers to do math from). So whatever calculation for dB increase you do will not be across the board. You need to then take into consideration the ohms at those frequencies you want to calculate.
But anyway that isnât so significant, just thought I would point that out especially since we as normal people canât get the numbers we need to do those calculations. You can do the max and min (roughly) based on the ±15% on the ohms listed. 17 ohms at the low and 23 at the high. But that is about it.
We also do not know is DBSPL or whether they used mw or volts for the sensitivity rating (spoiler I believe they used volts and Iâll show you why) for the p1âs. Neither are listed. But what we can do is some math to figure out mw used based on ohms and sensitivity once we know whether volts or mw is being used for sensitivity.
Doing that we will also find out that they most likely rated the P1âs incorrectly in the min and max power. (a rating of 5 min and 10 max was always hilariously tight anyway so we all knew it was wrong).
To calculate mw requirements we can do as you showed watt = V^2/ohm = 1/20 = 0.05 watts or 50 mw
To get down to their rated 5mw minimum the voltage would have to be incredibly low. Around 0.317 volts. That is very very very low.
So that is what leads me to believe they rated the P1 incorrectly.
I am not going to add in the math equations right now because I donât have the time. Maybe I will edit it in later when I have time. But basically if these are rated in mw then at 96db per mw at 20 ohm and 100db SPL of loudness (way too loud), you would need 0.24 volts and about 2.8 mw of power. Which is insane and also much lower than they are rated for. Unless they are rating at 102DB SPL to 106DB SPL which would be 5mw and 10mw respectively and also just plain silly.
Now if thje rating was in db per volt. That makes a lot more sense. At 96 db per volt you are looking at 86 DB SPL for 5 mw and 0.32 volts. At 100 DB SPL you would need 126mw and 1.59 volts. This is a far more realistic rating and still shows that 5-10mw is silly. Unless of course these were capped at 89 db spl which would be quite low. But if it was then you are talking 10mw at 0.45 volts.
Bearing in mind that all these numbers are perfect world number.
As for the reason why I say ohms in this case is not so important is because it is so low it does not have as much of an impact as a far higher ohm headphone. As long as you have a basic understanding of the math then you know that at 20 ohm it isnât really something you need to calculate. You can figure it out in your head fairly easily. Sensitivity matter far more. Just a change from 97db per volt at 100db spl can drop the power requirement from 127mw to 100. Going to 98 db per volt gets you to 80mw. So the sensitivity has a far larger impact on the overall power requirements at these ohm levels.
If it was the Sennheiser HD600 at 300ohm. Then yes ohms matter a lot more.
Going down 1 db in sensitivity does nearly nothing. It isnât even a single mw more.
That was getting at.
In a perfect world yes and also hence the silliness of the power rating it was given. 3 db of volume range is just plain stupid.
I hope that overly long reply clears that up while also staying on topic as much as possible.
This has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
What I was talking about is how the technology that Staxx are based on infers it needs very high voltage low amperage to function. Which is how the technology got itâs name. ElectroSTATIC.
I did not talk about how much power the human body can handle, how long static sticks around etc etc.
Stay on topic as much as possible, try to not derail and try to not pull things out of the air that were not said and certainly we did not need to talk about.
I donât know the meaning of dB SPL (the loudness you are listening to?)
I donât see why any of it would be âinsaneâ, 10 mW is 10 times more than 1 and hence 95-96 dB sensitivity would result in +10 = 105-106 dB. Which is what you are saying I assume.
If we take the Moondrop Kansas Pro instead then it claim 110 dB sensitivity @ 1 kHz, if you feed it 5 or 10 mW it will of course sound more that one too and wouldnât that be even more âinsaneâ assuming âinsaneâ mean âyou shouldnât be listening to that loudnessâ or âthatâs such high audio output!â? The Kansas Pro is 32 ohm but the difference in impedance is nowhere near the 14-15 dB difference in sensitivity. The Kansas Pro given sensitivity was measured and defined in the same way would sound more at the same volt signal.
Silly because? You think itâs too loud? Too sensitive? Too low? It was my impression they typically used per 1 mW likely at 1 kHz as you said and if so thereâs plenty of more sensitive headphones out there. Which lines up with people saying these need an amp I guess though there seem to be other things which are more hard to drive.
I was going to use the K712 Pro as an example but I see now that one rate it as SPL/V. 105. 62 ohms. So 16 mW for 105 dB?
If the Tin P1 was SPL/V then it would be 95-96 dB for 0.05 mW and hence more like 0.5 W for 105. So more power necessary for it than for the K712 Pro. If itâs SPL/mW then only 10 mW would be needed. So I guess for power maybe to just compare which one sound the most at the same volume could give a hint?
If itâs SPL/mW then the P1 would need 0.447 volt for 105 dB or whatever (add this to everything), if SPL/V it would need 3.16 volt and for the K712 Pro 1.0 volt?
I guess this discussing about how much things matter may be different depending on whatever it is rated as SPL/V or SPL/mW so that made it all harder.
Iâm pretty sure a trolley was mentioned and static discharge with peopleâs bodies is what they are used too.
db SPL yes refers to the loudness that a given sensitivity, ohm and power output from your headphone or earphone.
Insane as in Insanely loud and stupidly efficient. 96db is already very very loud. You could listen for no longer than 4 hours before hearing damage occurred (according to graphs). So if you are rated at 5mw they expect you to be pushing 102 db of loudness somewhat often, which by the graphs is no more than 2 hours before hearing damage.
To get to a comfortable listening loudness that most enjoy for extended periods is typically 80-90 db then you are talking fractions of a mw to get to that (microwatts), and when you really crank it for that one song you love you are talking 105-115db.
At their so called max of 10mW if they are rated at 96db per mW, they would top out at 106 dB. Maybe they have a bit of room at the top so you could push 107dB or even 108dB if you are really lucky. But then you are probably going to blow them up or damage them pretty badly.
Since the range of power is so small. It is too easy to do that.
Plus on the other hand if the P1 could theoretically output 108dB it would only be pulling theoretically 16mW. Which even something like an old Samsung galaxy phone can push if you max out the volume slider.
Which essentially meas that if these are rated at dB per mW then there would be no chatter abut how you canât run these on a phone properly. it would simply be incorrect.
Now at dB per Volt is a different story. That clearly lines up more.
You would think so, but the large majority of big name brands like Sennheiser, Bayerdynamic, AKG etc tend to use dB per Volt instead.
Typically you see dB per mW on cheaper stuff I guess. Not entirely sure why a company would choose one over the other.
Not 100% sure what you mean here. If you mean, âif the Kanas pro used the same voltage at itâs impedance and sensitivity rating it would be louderâ. Then yes that is correct.
If the Kanas pro is rated in at 110db per volt at 32 ohm (i am assuming since they again donât tell you if it is per 1mW or per 1 volt. ), and the Tin P1 is at 96dB V at 20 ohm. The Tin P1 would require 1.59 volts at 100db with 126mW, and the kanas Pro would only need 0.36 volts at 4 mW.
50 mW not 0.05mW but yes. I assume you wanted to say 0.05 watts here.
At 105 dB you would need roughly 398mW. At 106dB you would need 500mW or 0.5 W.
Yes these are very inefficient at high SPL. Well at least that is what I am seeing here.
The AKG K712 Pro are far more efficient by comparison.
You would have to have an amp on hand designed to allow you to output in voltage or in mW (you would have to keep at least one of them constant).
I think there are a few out there, but they are few and far between. The best option would probably be a sine wave generator maybe. Set to output in volts.
A normal amp wonât work because the change in impedance of the headphone or earphone would change the power output at a given point on the dial. So that would not be an accurate way to measure.
Yep thatâs correct.
Yes it does change things significantly so you have to make sure to check or find out somehow.
It just didnât quite fit into what we were really talking about. In some senses yes it did. But it was very out there and talked too much about things way off topic.
Sure interesting to know. But topic useful? Not really.
Recâd mine today in the UK.
Initial thoughts are that Iâm liking them quite a lot but itâs early days.
Im no reviewer so not sure how best to describe them so excuse me being a bit vague.
Ive been listening lately to a lot of ambient music (carbon based lifeforms etc) which is quite bass heavy and these do a pretty decent job but the bass doesnât hit like a DD would but Iâm used to that being a long term Stax owner so itâs not an issue for me.
Mids seem a bit forward and treble dances on the edge of too much but doesnât cross the line (well not for me but if youâre treble sensitive?)
I can see people might consider these a tad bright.
They are total detail monsters and it can get quite intense on complex arrangements
.I can see these potentially being a bit of a âMarmiteâ iem.
Youâre either going to love em or hate em.
One thing thoughâŠthey do need plenty of juice.
On my walkman my volume is between 95-110 out of 120!
Think a portable amp might be in order.
10 dollars though to get a small, medium and large. If you are lucky you can use two of those at max. Either small and medium or medium and large. If you arenât lucky because it just is uncomfortable. Then you can use 1 set.
So a bit rough.
On a separate note. Why is someone selling these on Amazon USED!? Like wtf.
I sure hope that means the packaging is damaged and not that they have been worn.
Edit: Also also separate note. I just buy some high quality memory foam tips from Aliexpress.
The AK store and Wooesey store sell the ones that come with the P1âs and they are good enough.
Costs me just shy of 3 dollars for 4 pairs of either medium, small or large. I usually just buy a whole bunch (like 20 sets of 4 pairs, mostly medium with a few large and a few small in there).
Basically I always have clean fresh ones if I ever need them for literally any reason, I can let others try my earphones with clean tips and I can let them keep them for next time or i shove it in a labeled ziplock and they can just use them the next time they come over and try something else or need to borrow a pair of IEMâs.
80 pairs of pretty good memory foam tips for 62 dollars which includes the trivial 9 dollars for the shipping on all that.
And yes that lasts a very long time, although not as long as you think with the number of people who I let try and make try IEMâs.
Yes they are washable and reusable. All synthetic foams are.
However over time they do break down, become worn out, start to take on smells, bacteria etc.
Beyond that the silicon core (tends to be silicon although there are some brands that use natural or synthetic rubber) will start to separate from the foam.
Itâs just like a kitchen sponge. You would not and should not use it forever.
You should not really wear foam tips for more than a few days before you wash them. I would not push it longer than a week and after a week even if you only wore them once you should wash them. They would have been sitting around for week with earwax, skin oils and microscopic flakes of skin on and in it.
You can maybe wash them PROPERLY (hot water, disinfectant and a touch of surfactant), up to 10 times. âGoodâ tips or cheap tips it doesnât matter. However I usually donât go past 5-7 washes because they start to be not so great after that. Some start having the core separate, bad luck ones are maybe starting to disintegrate, others might not be puffing back up as they once did by that point.
On a not great note I have had people that just never washed their tips and would regret it because it gave them constant ear infections and didnât even realize the problem until it was pointed out.
So personally I donât think being a penny pincher. It is about hygiene and also to an extent sound.
If the outer layer is filled with wax then it will not perform sonically as it did before. It will alter slightly.
Penny pinching wise we are also talking several dollars of difference here. 10 dollars + shipping for essentially one pair the right size vs 4 pairs of the right size for half the price. They tend to charge like 2-4 dollars for shipping if you only buy one set of 4.
If I wanted 4 pairs of mediums from Dekoni, then I would be spending 40 dollars plus 15 dollars shipping plus import duties of 15% (although it might be 25% if it getâs considered a waste product that goes to the landfill).
So I can either spend 61 dollars for 4 pairs of the size I really want of Dekoniâs or I can spend 5-6 dollars including shipping to get the same 4 pairs.
That is not penny pinching. That is actually significant.
Putting that into perspective. The cost difference is only 4-6 dollars shy of buying a pair of Takstar Pro 82âs from Aliexpress with free shipping and including import duties.
I know right. It is pristine and just smoooottthhhhhh.
For the first time in a while I am organizing a listening party again. It is basically something I do when something big like this pops up that I can afford. I gather about 15-20 friends of just a normal background and we do some listening and discussing and then I put it into a normie review based on all those ears.
Somewhat compressing what everyone thinks down into something like a review.
It gives a very broad view based on quite a few varied opinions, different choices in music, gamers etc.
Iâve done it before on a few occasions. Now that I am thinking about it the last time I got one together was when the BossHifi B8 aka BLON B8 aka Sivga 006 was known by basically nobody. It was a whisper on headfi. That turned into like a 2 or 3 page word document that got posted somewhere. It was a bit of an interesting one.
When we are done with all that shit we drink and make merry.
Wish I had the cash to do that more often with audio stuff.
I need comparisons of this, OH-10, and KXXS. The 3 wise men or the 3 kings lol something.
