I think @RiceGuru did a good job explaining the difference in bass between the three headphones in question. The 600 ohm models are going to give you a bit more refinement than the 250 ohm versions. The difference will be subtle and hard to pick out for someone not used to listening for them, but they are there. If you have the amplifier power, the 600 ohm models are the better option.
Do you NEED a dac/amp? Technically no - we don’t NEED any of this stuff . The thread you shared looks like it’s for the 250 ohm version. Those probably can be powered off onboard audio to loud enough levels. I don’t know if the 600 ohm can or not. Onboard audio has improved dramatically over the years and to the untrained ear will sound really good and very close to the quality of one of those dac and amp combos discussed in my earlier post. It’s still not as good as devices dedicated to audio, though. You will likely notice this if you were to listen through a dedicated dac and amp for awhile, then switch back to onboard. You’ll hear extra noise, hiss, and generally less clarity with the onboard. Sometimes it’s one of those things you don’t know you’re missing until it’s not there. Also, onboard audio will require you to use the OS volume control. If the system’s volume control is not maxed out, you lose audio information, degrading quality. Here’s a quick explanation in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pc-volume-control.834251/.
ah sorry I completely forgot to mention the 600 ohm 990 or 880 definitely needs an amp, most in here that like their beyers would tend to recommend the monoprice liquid spark as many find it to be an excellent pairing. the thing to keep in mind is amp will amplify whatever flaws detected on your onboard so keep that in mind. but if the mobo is clean you should be good for the most part.
Thing is, doesnt the really nice headphones like the Sundara, which is a bright headphone, be not only just as good, but better? It has more detail and imaging.
Also what about the whole 3d thing? i would think that would be a given.
Maybe? I’ve not seen any direct comparison on gaming performance between DT880-600 and the Sundara. Then, the next thing to figure out is if that performance difference is worth the difference in price - usually $350 for Sundara vs. ~$180-200 for the DT880. @M0N, how does the Sundara stack up to the 880-600 on gaming? And I ask about gaming first because that was the primary goal of the OP.
I can confirm that gaming is my number one priority. Music is definitely a nice-to-have, but I wouldn’t want to sacrifice too much for it. Movies and TV are generally done on my TV setup (2 micas, the mica center, and the recommended starter 12 inch sub I forget the name of).
Not that it matters, but I do have mild (I think) tinitis, which means I’ll probably go with your cheaper options of DAC. I might not hear any static/noise due to that. There is enough wiggle room in my budget to include a DAC without issue though, so I probably won’t leave it off.
I actually prefer the 880 600 ohm to the sundara for just gaming, but I do think the sundara is my preference for music with a side of gaming. That being said I think the sundara does preform fairly well in games
I would actually not skimp on a dac for that, perhaps I would suggest a topping e30 and a liquid spark with an 880 600 ohm to reduce potential fatigue, but I do know tinnitus affects different people in different ways so I’m not fully sure what might cause issues or not from person to person.
Right. This is why I initially suggested @sychotix go with the DT880-600 and listen to music with it for awhile to see how he likes it. The DT880, E30, and any of those 4 $100 amps will kick ass for gaming and also do a really good job with music. Plus, there will be plenty of that $1000 budget left over if he decides the DT880 is too sharp or doesn’t have enough bass for music. If so, he comes back to HFGF forum and we point him to a good music can for his tastes.
It really depends on what you are looking for imo. The magni heresy will tilt it bright and analytical, and while impressive not my preferred pairing. The liquid spark would tilt it a bit warmer and smoother, and the magni 3+ would be inbetween the spark and heresy in terms of signature
you would think that but every driver is made different and wheat beyerdynamic does with their DT line in trespect to imaging is just hard to beat its very accurate for their respective prices. the thing about the sundara is yes its actually quite good for gaming but in respect to placing sound withina space especially given angles beyerdynamic just does it better form my experience. what the sundara ro hifimans do really well that translate well to music but in games can be helpful or abit distracting in competitive situations is the layering and great separation prowess. it does very well for immersion in games but in competitive accurate imaging is the most important. especially when your listening for which place a person is coming to you or where they are. sound signature only plays a third of what headphones to consider. another third is imaging and sound stage accuracy and the other what games you are playing. I like the 990 for the games I play which is rainbow six the bass and treble is great for listening too footsteps exposing through sound what surface , or floor they are stepping on. the 880 is a good all rounder for basically everything for music and gaming. good imaging nice amount of brightness and relatively neutral.
So for anyone reading this in the future and to those that helped…
Went with beyerdynamic DT 880 Premium (600 OHM), Schiit Magni 3+ AMP, Topping E30 DAC.
I got the headphones specifically on Amazon in case I absolutely hate them (which I don’t expect) since they have a really great return policy. I’m going to bookmark this page to remind me to update it later with thoughts.
So, took a while for them to get here, but to quickly sum up the results…
The amp arrived first, used it for a week or so without DAC on the HD 558s. I think I could notice a difference… but could certainly be placebo. I heard amps won’t help the 558s much anyways.
DAC got then got here, and I’m pretty sure I can tell a difference in noise. Definitely a nice-to-have.
Got the DT 880s, tested them out immediately against the HD 558s (both through amp/dac). The wife and my initial impression was that music sounds better on the 558s, a good test song we used was Panic! At the Disco - Death of a Bachelor. She described it like the sax seemed to lose a lot of it’s… bass-yness I think would be the right. Perhaps the 990s wouldn’t have this issue.
Used it in gaming over the next like… two weeks? Time has passed by strange recently with the quarantine. Holy shit does it make a big difference. Where I was usually like “I hear someone to the left-ish” with a general direction, I’ve now got a pretty good idea as to where they are. Hell, I’ve second guessed myself a handful of times in Apex Legends where I’m like… I thought I heard something over on the left… but my teammate is walking nearby. Maybe it was just that. NOPE!
As a final decision on the music aspect… they are kind-of just different. The 880s definitely seem to have a wider sound stage. Sounds seem to be a bit more clear. That said, I think the 558s (to my uneducated ears) might be better for music. Not enough to swap back though.
TL;DR; Sennheiser HD 558 to Beyerdynamic DT 880
For competitive gaming: Holy shit, so much better. Super worth it.
For music: Mostly just different, probably better upgrade choices for this.
So I saw the Z Review video on the DT 880s talking about how you need a really high up amp to drive them properly without distortion, and I think he specifically mentioned the magni schiit 3 (I think) couldn’t drive it to sound great… at least when he adds a handful of other things that I don’t know anything about.
Any truth to this? If (or really when?) I get upgrade-itis… is a better amp the first thing to go for?
Some of this was discussed in the official DT880 thread . @ZeosPantera went a bit overboard. The new Magni amps have plenty of power to drive the DT880’s comfortably. But, it also true that they are $99 amps and the 880’s will remind you of that from a quality standpoint, depending on the quality of recording. IMO, the Schiit Asgard 3 and the Darkvoice (if you get it at the $200 or less price from Drop) are excellent price-appropriate matches for the DT880.
I can confirm this as well. Liquid Spark, Magni 3+, atom all can power the dt 880 600 ohm but they won’t sound the best. Recommended to buy an amp around the $200 range with a good amount of power like the asgard 3, which does very well for this headphone and many others, to make it sound its best.
. The thread you shared looks like it’s for the 250 ohm version. Those probably can be powered off onboard audio to loud enough levels. I don’t know if the 600 ohm can or not. Onboard audio has improved dramatically over the years and to the untrained ear will sound really good and very close to the quality of one of those dac and amp combos discussed in my earlier post. It’s still not as good as devices dedicated to audio, though. You will likely notice this if you were to listen through a dedicated dac and amp for awhile, then switch back to onboard. You’ll hear extra noise, hiss, and generally less clarity with the onboard. Sometimes it’s one of those things you don’t know you’re missing until it’s not there. Also, onboard audio will require you to use the OS volume control. If the system’s volume control is not maxed out, you lose audio information, degrading quality. Here’s a quick explanation in this thread: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/pc-volume-control.834251/.