🔶 Focal Clear

[Resolution]

@Peas

Schiit Jot2/Bifrost2

@monkey32

JOT2/BIFROST2 = Amazballs

+1

[M0N]

I’d swap the jot 2 with an rnhp with a bf2 but the jot 2 is still nice

With the v200 I’d go for a 2541 or 1421 instead of the v850, that’s also a real solid pairing

[Alfredo3001]

I want that combo! good luck getting one though. Backorder, from 4 - 6 weeks

[Peas]

Yeah I’ve had my order in for about 3 weeks now. I think I made the right decision going with the jot2/bifrost2

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

I also bought a focal clear MG past week. Absolutely loving it so far. Pairing it with a schiit hel 2 right now, which is fine in term of sound signature for me. It also looks great:

It sounds absolutely amazing. However, I think a Dac/Amp upgrade is inevitable long term, for music listening that is. The hell would remain as my dedicated gaming device long term, but I think it could be used as a dac mid term. Upgrading in stages makes most sense, right? AMP first, with hell pre out, seperate DAC later. That way I could spend a little more and have more of a journey. Also, with the rate at which DACs get better every year, I think waiting a year to buy a DAC might be very worth there. I am in no hurry though, so I am keeping an eye on the 2nd hand market for this upgrade, I am quite pleased with what I have right now.

I see the RNHP brought up quite often in combination with the clear, but only in combination with a “fun” dac like the bifrost. Is it extremely clinical? The looks of it seems like it is, it reminds me of stuff we use in the hospital. For some reason it makes more sense in my head to have a clean as possible DAC and a fun AMP (Singser?) instead of the other way around. Maybe even 2 different AMPs in the future.

The “problem” with the schiit stuff is I am in Europe and warrenty could be a problem then (shipping overseas). I do vastly prefer the looks of schiit stuff compared to RNHP though. Not extremely important, but still a factor. Something like Singxer or topping look fine, althoug not as good as schiit I think, but would be preferred over RNHP looks.

My budget is around 500 right now, or maybe 700 for a stack. But 500 now and 500 in a year or so is possible.

Thoughts?

[M0N]

@Joost_Eijkenboom

but only in combination with a “fun” dac like the bifrost. Is it extremely clinical?

Yes and no, the neve can be slightly hard to pair dac wise as it’s pretty dependant on the dac for it’s performance imo, and can also easily be tilted toward something too clinical or too warm and smooth, imo finding something that gives good balance is key

The bf2 ends up being pretty natural sounding overall and striking that balance well. Generally what the bf2 does with the neve is it expands the more intimate staging of the neve while maintaining most of the depth, adds more low end impact and body overall, keeps the great timbre, and slightly smooths out treble which can get hot with poor recordings. Also adds more macrodynamics to the neve which typically focuses on micro. The end result is just pretty natural neutral and a great balance between everything, it doesn’t tilt it too far one way.

@Joost_Eijkenboom

For some reason it makes more sense in my head to have a clean as possible DAC and a fun AMP

It depends, it’s moreso just finding things that have good synergy together as you want to assess the combination of the chain’s end result rather than the individual components

@Joost_Eijkenboom

The “problem” with the schiit stuff is I am in Europe and warrenty could be a problem then (shipping overseas)

Makes sense

@Joost_Eijkenboom

I do vastly prefer the looks of schiit stuff compared to RNHP though. Not extremely important, but still a factor. Something like Singxer or topping look fine, althoug not as good as schiit I think, but would be preferred over RNHP looks.

Fair lol

@Joost_Eijkenboom

My budget is around 500 right now, or maybe 700 for a stack. But 500 now and 500 in a year or so is possible.

If you were still interested in the neve with that budget, I might suggest dac wise considering an allo revolution dac with the nirvana smps, that would be an upgrade from the dac in the hel, should be attainable in eu, and is pretty high performing for the price (albeit with limited io). A handy feature of the Allo is the ability to change how it sounds a bit though oversampling filter bypass or 2nd and 3rd order harmonic control, which can be handy to tweak the sound to your liking, good synergy with the neve imo. Later on you could upgrade to a bifrost or other 1k ish dac and get more gain if you end up really enjoying something like the neve

Another more euro friendly option that I also enjoy with the clear (although not as much as the neve) is the lake people g111.

I have a more in depth comparison of how they pair with the clear here, both are great options

A Comparison between the Rupert Neve RNHP & Lake People G111

Personally I feel the rnhp has better synergy with the clear for a few reasons, I feel the rnhp more accurately represents natural presentation for the clear, it’s true that the clear doesn’t have that wide of a stage, and the g111 does end up being a wider amp than the rnhp, but the rnhp to me ends up having more precise placement and greater depth than the g111, and the g111 staging can feel unnatrual and inaccurate at times with the clear imo (as the g111 can exaggerate and artificially creat…

I would mention the little labs monotor for something more analytical but not overly so as an option. It probably isn’t winning in looks either lol. Copying a few comparisons over from another thread as well

@M0N

If I had to pull some thoughts (which are based off a short amount of time and limited headphone selection), it would potentially be in between a rnhp and g111 in terms of signature, it was very studio neutral (not neutral smooth like the g111 nor neutral-natural like the rnhp), it’s stage was accurate but not overstated (wasn’t as deep and sharp placement wise as the neve, but nor as wide and spacious as the g111 can be, but the neve can sound somewhat more intimate and the g111 more artificially wide and lack placement accuracy), it’s timbre was solid but not stand out (neve was more timbrally and tonally accurate, g111 is prob more an equal here), detail wise most likely on par with the rnhp and lake people imo but could eek out more detail in the bass possibly, for tonal density it was a slight bit dry but not an issue and still solid. It does sound better extended in the bass than the neve and better extended in the treble than the g111 (both of which though can be compensated with the proper dac pairing, same goes for other qualms mentioned with the rnhp and g111).

To me the more stand out thing about it was the control and impact it had, while still having very good microdynamics, it really did punch fairly hard and made dynamics pretty easy to judge. It felt very fast and tight especially in the bass, the g111 has more raw impact but the little labs more likely had more control

@M0N

So far, it really feels like an inbetween rnhp and g111 but more forward than both, so very solid, so another great option in this price range. If I had some qualms, it might be that it sometimes sounds a bit over emphasized in it’s resolving power and can sound a bit unnatural at times but that’s not really a downside more just a trait to note. For out of the 3, you really can’t go wrong as long as you pay attention to what cans you are using, as all 3 of them have compelling reasons over each other and it will just come down to preference so far.

To quickly touch on dac pairing, this is somewhat picky about what dac you use, not as much as the neve is, but it’s not as forgiving as the g111. So far, I’ve had the best experiences with dacs that lean either a touch warmer or are reasonably neutral, going too far analytical ends up being overwhelming and isn’t that enjoyable imo. Having the dac be a slight bit relaxed would also be a bonus. It did scale fairly well and let though some of the characteristics of a higher end dacs like the neve, so it’s fairly transparent there for the price

The allo also happens to pair well with the little labs when you tune it to oversampling filter bypass and make it a bit more relaxed and warmer

Sorry for the multiple links and quotes, I just realized I’ve already written some of this beforehand

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

Thank you for your extensive reply!

Makes sense that it is all about the combination rather than the single components. Good to know. I thought it was as easy as combining a warm and a clinical together to get something in between. I guess it would be better to wait and buy the stack in one go then. Maybe wait for schiit to be back in stock in EU…

That allo solution does look very promissing though. I already use a Allo digione in my stereo system, which I am very happy with. Buying the linear power supply could have the additional benefit that I can try and see if that makes a difference in my stereo too, which would be great to try. Going to read up on that further for sure. But if I understand you correctly, the allo is not and end game DAC, but a temporarily solution… I rather spend a little more now than buy a new device next year. Interesting option for sure though. I honestly hope to never spend 1K on a DAC though lol.

Thnx for the copy pastes. Another rabbit hole to jump in!

[M0N]

@Joost_Eijkenboom

Good to know. I thought it was as easy as combining a warm and a clinical together to get something in between

Yeah there’s other things you have to take into account like presentation, timbre, dynamics, resolution, transparency, tonal density, impact, etc

@Joost_Eijkenboom

I guess it would be better to wait and buy the stack in one go then. Maybe wait for schiit to be back in stock in EU…

I mean possibly, but it probably wouldn’t hurt to grab the neve now and use your hel as a dac for the time being, should be an upgrade over the internal hel amp (although I wouldn’t assess it with the dac in the hel)

@Joost_Eijkenboom

I already use a Allo digione in my stereo system, which I am very happy with

Nice

@Joost_Eijkenboom

But if I understand you correctly, the allo is not and end game DAC, but a temporarily solution…

Somewhat yes, it’s good enough to not be called a stopgap or temporary solution, but it’s not to that next tier of performance so if you think you can squeeze for something like a bf2 off the bat, that’s probably worthwhile (as with the Allo again while good, you might find yourself itching to upgrade later on)

@Joost_Eijkenboom

I honestly hope to never spend 1K on a DAC though lol.

Lol

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

Have you also have experience with the Singxer SA1? Have been very curious about that AMP for a while now, and even more positive reviews are coming in over time, with passion for sound comparing it to the Jottenheim now as well. Curious if that could be a nice partial upgrade combined with Hel DAC.

Going to see if I can audition the Neve anywhere around here. Not convinced enough to buy it second hand right now (partially because of the looks… please don’t shoot me lmao).

[Resolution]

lol, as for the looks of the RNHP, I’ve always seen it as something I’d be hooked up to in a hospital.

[mochimashu]

If looks matter, you can always go for RNHP Fidelice

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

Lol is that the same device in another box?

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

This is also quite genious by a user on headphones forums:

Lego on the LED make it look less hospital more semi hospital lmao

[mochimashu]

Yep lol.

I use red Lego to match the volume knob

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

Damn that looks pretty good actually. The colour seems to be a very good match too!

[mochimashu]

It’s dark red from Lego, not red, if u get those plates

[Joost_Eijkenboom]

Awesome, probably part number 6028132 to save other interested parties the hassle of searching them (and for my own future reference).

Going to visit a botique that has the fidelice next week. Will give it a listen. AFAIK they are quite close in sound (if not identical).

[M0N]

@Joost_Eijkenboom

Have you also have experience with the Singxer SA1? Have been very curious about that AMP for a while now, and even more positive reviews are coming in over time, with passion for sound comparing it to the Jottenheim now as well. Curious if that could be a nice partial upgrade combined with Hel DAC.

It’s nice but nothing to write home about imo. I’d say it’s on a similar level to the jot overall. Warmer smoother relaxed, decent technicalities, lots of power to drive things

@Joost_Eijkenboom

Going to visit a botique that has the fidelice next week. Will give it a listen. AFAIK they are quite close in sound (if not identical).

Nice and yes they should be close in sound

[mochimashu]

@M0N

It’s nice but nothing to write home about imo. I’d say it’s on a similar level to the jot overall. Warmer smoother relaxed, decent technicalities, lots of power to drive things

I take that you’d rate RNHP (or G111) above Jot 2 (SA1) then? Even excluding the factors of synergy with the Clear

[M0N]

I would yes for more easy to drive things, but even though the jot or singxer aren’t exactly to the same technical level as a neve they will drive harder to drive planar much better, as that’s the main weak point of the neve