All good points. So let me ask this, then - what is the ideal kind of amplification for these phones or planars in general - do we want more voltage gain amplification or more current gain amplification? And what is that magic number for these phones - has that been determined? Seems there is still some confusion out there.
So about this topic I found this video and the comments pretty interesting: The ULTIMATE Hifiman Susvara Review - YouTube
The author basically claims that more power = better performance. In the comments thereâs a user named Passion for Sound that disagrees and thinks that more power doesnât necessarily mean better performance, but the quality of the amplification would indeed impact performance.
TL;DR itâs likely that a more expensive (and therefore better quality) amp will give you better performance, even if the power output is not much greater.
Iâm a total noob and I donât have much experience, so I canât choose a side for sure, but I find this topic interesting.
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The truth is more power more volume and thatâs it, some frequencies do need more than others but the whole putting 45 watts through a headphone is laughable
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Unless Iâve missed it somewhere it seems there is a lot of dancing around the actual issue here. The need isnât for raw power as measured by number of watts. The need is for quick and accurate power delivery. The amp needs to deliver the right amount of power in the right frequency range(s) at the right time, and do it quickly enough so as not to sound slugglish, cause distortion, or in essence stumble over itself. Then, because real music waves are complex, the amp will have to be able to deliver the necessary power at say 60Hz (a challenging area for dynamic drivers) while at the same time delivering power at 1KHz, 8 KHz, etc all at once. Generally, the more expensive an amp gets the better it gets at doing these things. A big reason is the higher price point allows for higher quality parts, like capacitors and power supplies, that can meet those ever-changing power delivery demands.
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Yeah but itâs 2022 and 99% of amps measure with inaudible distortion unless theyâre tubes
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And that has nothing to do with what @WaveTheory has said
He was talking about the right power delivery feom the amp for all frequencies and in the fastest possible way, ergo over sized caps and Trafos
Distortion measurements are done in one frequency band and that itâs, one point of data of the 20 - 20k Hz band we listen to
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You can do a multitone distortion test, and still my point is most amps are 99% transparent, measurably, but people still hear stuff that isnât there, I have a âwarmâ liquid spark and an âanalyticâ L30 here for example, spoilers theyâre linear, sound the same and measure the same.
And the power thing is separate, yeah some headphones are hard to drive as in they require a couple watts, not 45 lol
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at no point did i say they need 45 watts. thatâs absurd. i was only making a point that volume is not inseparable from power. you can listen with 45 watts being pumped into them with them playing at 70db. power isnât volume.
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Yes but your point was also that if this power quality isnât proxy testable by any specific measurement It could only rely on subjective tests. So It hard to indentify what kind of amp has enough âpower qualityâ at some specific required mW (mW I mean for loudness).
never said you need a speaker amp to drive a headphone 
But peronally i can hear differences when i switch between my asgard 3 and my g111, will i hear them the moment i switch between them? Not always in an instant but if i concentrate youll hear differnces. Only time ill spot differences is if i have a day when i have more trouble with treble then all the spots when its difficult do come down with the asgard.
Yeah and itâs really difficult because raw power itself means almost nothing. Like take the topping a90 for example, it has just absolutely trash control with an HE6 (despite getting plenty loud at medium gain and with the amp being rated at 6.4w@32ohm and a Vpp swing of 49v). It has similar amounts of control as something like an sp200, 789, magni, and others that are way cheaper so it must be coming down the the power supply being incapable of fast enough power delivery (or recharging capacitors after a quick drain) even though itâs âdistortion freeâ. Itâs a night and day difference jumping to a more capable amp and just because itâs an example of a much harder to drive headphone and is exaggerated by the power demand, it still applies to other headphones, just to a lesser degree but once you hear well controlled planars itâs hard to unhear it going back. If more measurements of amps were available, Iâm sure it would be easier to nail down exactly the reason some amps run out of steam really easily on planars but most companies donât publish any meaningful measurements like that so trial and error (with some common sense and guidance from others experience) is really the only way to be able to experience it, especially since just spending more doesnât always mean quality goes up whatsoever (just like more power doesnât automatically mean more control).
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It is really strange that any producer, website review, or audiosciencereview forum was gone to measure or discuss this type of measurement about this specific âPower qualityâ if It is possibile.
Instead if this âpower qualityâ is only perceptible by our brain congition/psycoaucustic It is hard.
I donât wanna start a war, but my biggest gripe with the ASR and measurement crowd - not that Iâm disputing measurements - is that their argument boils down to, âYou actually canât hear a difference because we canât measure that. Therefore itâs all in your head/placebo.â
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I just want to understand if this specific âpower qualityâ (what is? transient? frequency response with multitone samples? etc.) could be engineering measured or it is still something that we want to reserve to the psycoaucustic domain (until we find a way to measure It).
iâm sure itâs measurable but iâm not sure how. i remember explaining somewhere when describing the effects of how a DDC can improve the accuracy of deep sub bass and the difference it made was between âoh yeah, the bass is thereâ to the point where you can hear the ups and downs of the sine waves and that should be measureable and the effect it has is it adds a lot of realism to the reverb and gives a ton more room information and the same goes for the treble where when it hits a certain amount of clarity and detail you get leaps more accuracy in soundstage depth and placement as well as separation and that same effect is at play with amps being able to give precise enough control to accomplish basically the same thing as how a DDC helps with jitter.
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Aaaand these are now burning in. Will listen when im actually awake
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Well? Honestly? So far⊠I would say I appreciate these. Been sitting with them for a few hours now. I do prefer this over the Ananda⊠bit smoother in the highs and much much better sub bass not to mention being just as detailed. I had to sit back down with the Arya⊠but I am fairly certain the soundstage here on XS isnât as large and imaging isnât quite at that point where the Arya sits either though the stage and imaging I feel is better than ananda⊠so this is in my opinion a better buy.
For all the nutballs thinking you need balls to the wall amp power⊠Tested Entry Level: Liquid Spark $100 amplifier. Volume Knob roughly 45% High Gain and is blaringly loud. However, notable wall and added distortion⊠You need a faster amp to push this thing so it does scale⊠but its nothing ridiculous. Asgard is just fine. Violectric seems⊠I want to say overkill lol. I do really appreciate the combo of this with an RNHP though very clean overall. I really donât encourage this with the Liquid plat⊠the bass is a bit too loose.
Now onto the stuff I donât like. Hifiman seems to preach a bit on how their headphones âdisappearâ PersonallyâŠ? I donât find this a good thing. The clamp force is too low and I have a larger head⊠this thing can slide / shift when I look in different directions which causes discomfort. Mind you this is fixable for me but not for such a price tag imo. Other issue, Pads in my opinion from Hifiman have always been rather Meh⊠This is a loaner so I am not going to bother pad swaps but least this is fixable. Also, replace the cableâŠ
I think one of the larger changes is that this is more in common with the Edition X instead of their typical lineup⊠so it has a thicker sound to it. It responds⊠decently well to EQ need quite a bit of extra preamp to really change them up to my experience so far.
I had to really sit⊠and re look at the price of this headphone⊠$500 brand new? Yeah, I have no complaints here⊠they will be even cheaper later down the road like in the $300 range given some time. Absolutely so far, worth its price
I will have more thoughts later
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yeah stock these just slid off my head with my modifications I can move my head a bit without them moving too much lol
was willing to try the hybrid headband but out of stock
Yeah, I mean so far my complaints are fairly just minor and itâs primarily just hifiman⊠any of the headphones from them with this design have very little when it comes to clamp usually and I have never been a fan of their pads as I feel their a bit scratchy to me⊠least they are better than that original pad they were using back on 400i⊠Some modifications to strength the clamp and a good pad swap to dekoni provided it doesnât destroy the signature is what I would say is needed for this.
non angled pads really gave them the secure feel they lacked. i just hate angled pads so much and coupled with wearing glasses, they just never feel like they grip well.