🔷 iFi ZEN CAN Headphone Amplifier

[DragonFish]

Sorry - I posted a different photo.

It’s supposed to be 4.4mm male into a 3.5mm female.

So I think the explanation of WaveTheory covered it.

Thank you as well for taking time to read and answer my question.

[sebastien_chiu_iFi]

Just confirming what folks have said here - unfortunately, there is no proper way to do this!

Happy to answer any more questions if you have them.

[Chripo]

Hi all,

@WaveTheory Thank you so much for the review, I really enjoyed reading it a lot!

I’m currently looking for a reasonable priced DAC and Amp for my DT 1990 Pros and am currently favoring an Ifi Zen DACv2/Can stack. Since balanced outputs generally seem to deliver more power, I have already ordered all the stuff needed to mod my 1990s for a balanced input via 4.4mm Pentaconn on an amp.

In the review the DT 1990s were mentioned in the “unfortunate” section because the Zen Can introduces distortion on 250-ohm DT headphones in the low end and especially when using the XBass.

My questions:

1. Regarding the 1990s, would that distortion likely be noticeably less when using the Zen CAN’s balanced output?
2. Alternative: Since Schiit products (Modius, Magnius, Asgard 3) are not readily available in Europe, would a Topping A50s (15V power supply, 4.4mm balanced out) combined with the D50s DAC be a better choice than the Zen stack for the DT 1990s?

Thanks, Chripo

[WaveTheory]

Hi! Welcome to HFGF!

@Chripo

DT 1990 Pros

Nice can!

@Chripo

I have already ordered all the stuff needed to mod my 1990s for a balanced input via 4.4mm Pentaconn

If you’re comfortable doing it, modding a Beyer DT is often handy. I would recommend that you mod it dual-entry detachable, or at least balanced detachable, so that you can use it on a SE output as well.

@Chripo

Regarding the 1990s, would that distortion likely be noticeably less when using the Zen CAN’s balanced output?

Yes. The CAN might be borderline OK for this headphone. I can’t say for sure though.

@Chripo

Alternative: Since Schiit products (Modius, Magnius, Asgard 3) are not readily available in Europe, would a Topping A50s (15V power supply, 4.4mm balanced out) combined with the D50s DAC be a better choice than the Zen stack for the DT 1990s?

Schiit needs to get their schiit together in international distro, for sure! I was not a fan of the A50s by any stretch. What price can you get a Lake People G103s for? That’s our standard entry-point amp rec for our EU friends.

[Chripo]

@WaveTheory

If you’re comfortable doing it, modding a Beyer DT is often handy. I would recommend that you mod it dual-entry detachable, or at least balanced detachable, so that you can use it on a SE output as well.

I will try this mod which replaces the original 3-pin mini XLR connector with a 4 pin mini XLR. Additionally, I plan to make a corresponding cable with 4.4mm Pentaconn plug together with a separate 3.5mm TRS plug to 4.4mm Pentaconn jack adapter for SE outputs. Hope to get along with these for a while.

@WaveTheory

I was not a fan of the A50s by any stretch.

Thanks for your review and opinion on the A50s. From reading stuff on the web, I had the impression that it would be a good choice in the price range of about 200EUR/USD, especially when using balanced out (SE seems to be less capable though).

@WaveTheory

I was not a fan of the A50s by any stretch. What price can you get a Lake People G103s for? That’s our standard entry-point amp rec for our EU friends.

On Amazon, the G103-S is 269 EUR, A50s 199 EUR and the Zen CAN 169 EUR (without iPower, which would add another 50 EUR).

My thoughts on these three are as follows:

• G103-S: most likely the best sound on a Dt 1990, highest price of the three amps, no balanced in- or outputs, no stackable DAC (could e.g. use it with a Topping E30), not very attractive case, maybe not very portable due to the large power connector used.
• D50s/A50s stack: should deliver enough power on the balanced output for DT 1990, no balanced input, very nice looking small sized stack, should easily be portable in a backpack.
• Zen DAC/CAN stack: most likely lacking power for DT 1990 even when using the balanced output, lowest price when not considering the additional costs for iPower power supply, balanced in- and outputs (but balanced in does not noticably improve sound quality), nice medium sized stack, should also be portable in a backpack.

Would that be a reasonable summary for the three options? And how would a Schiit Modius/Magnius stack compare to these? If that stack would offer the least compromises, I would consider ordering it directly in the US.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated!

–Chripo

[WaveTheory]

@Chripo

G103-S: most likely the best sound on a Dt 1990, highest price of the three amps, no balanced in- or outputs, no stackable DAC (could e.g. use it with a Topping E30), not very attractive case, maybe not very portable due to the large power connector used.

I wouldn’t worry about balanced at this price point. Here’s why:

Is Balanced Better? Pros & Cons of Balanced vs. Single-Ended

To Balance or Not to Balance? That is the question. Whether ‘tis nobler to buy a balanced amp or DAC or an unbalanced (or single-ended, aka SE, the two terms are interchangeable) amp or DAC is the focus of this post. There have been lots of questions around this forum about whether a balanced amp or DAC is better than a SE amp or DAC. Should you explore balanced? Is balanced better? It’s understandably confusing. After all, in the English language, ‘balance’ is often used in the context of desc…

It’s still potentially forward-thinking to balance mod your DT1990 if you can do it safely, because it will open up the possibility of a wider range of amps to use down the road. Balanced amping does not inherently sound better, though.

The G103-s is probably the best sounding amp you have on that list. I haven’t heard it myself, but I trust those who say it’s the real deal at the price point. You don’t have to match it with a Topping E30, though. You can use a Zen Dac V1 or V2 with it just fine.

@Chripo

D50s/A50s stack: should deliver enough power on the balanced output for DT 1990, no balanced input, very nice looking small sized stack, should easily be portable in a backpack.

You will get sound.

@Chripo

Zen DAC/CAN stack: most likely lacking power for DT 1990 even when using the balanced output, lowest price when not considering the additional costs for iPower power supply, balanced in- and outputs (but balanced in does not noticably improve sound quality),

I like the Zen DAC just fine as a DAC. I’m not nearly as high on iFi’s entry-level amps.

@Chripo

should also be portable in a backpack

This is a wrinkle I didn’t expect. Do you need transportability in your setup?

@Chripo

And how would a Schiit Modius/Magnius

If you’re gonna order Schiit gear, I would strongly suggest the Asgard 3 amp. IMO it’s the best <$200 headphone amp on the market right now. With shipping and customs, it might be close to the price of a G103s (?). My recommendation for you, if it’s isn’t too much money, would be to use a Zen DAC as a DAC and connect it to either a G103s or an Asgard 3.

Good luck!

[sebastien_chiu_iFi]

Thanks a ton for helping @chripo with the great info here

[Chripo]

Thanks again @WaveTheory for your enlightening comments and the precious time you take to guide me through my adventure of getting my first advanced headphone Amp/DAC stack!

@WaveTheory

I wouldn’t worry about balanced at this price point. […] It’s still potentially forward-thinking to balance mod your DT1990 if you can do it safely, because it will open up the possibility of a wider range of amps to use down the road. Balanced amping does not inherently sound better, though.

Yes, I understand that “balanced” outputs not necessarily provide “better” sound. But the balanced outputs of the 200 EUR/USD amps mostly offer more power compared to SE outputs, which seems to be benefitial for my DT 1990. That’s the main reason why I thought Zen Can, A50s or the Magnius Amps would be good candidates for me. But I also understand, that other factors like internal design, power supply (cf. Zen Can) etc. could also have a big influence on output power and sound quality. So maybe my suggestions were simply a noob’s naive guess after reading lots of (often contradictory) opinions on various DACs/Amps on the web.

@WaveTheory

The G103-s is probably the best sounding amp you have on that list. I haven’t heard it myself, but I trust those who say it’s the real deal at the price point. You don’t have to match it with a Topping E30, though. You can use a Zen Dac V1 or V2 with it just fine.

Thanks again, I will definitely have a look at some more reviews of the G103-S! And I also like the Zen DAC very much for its versatility (DAC+Amp) and optics, but it’s a pity that it doesn’t offer SPDIF or Toslink inputs. Both together will probably not “stack” very well, but might be the “best of breed” combo in the ~400-500 USD/EUR range.

@WaveTheory

@Chripo

should also be portable in a backpack

This is a wrinkle I didn’t expect. Do you need transportability in your setup?

Well, that’s a use case that might come up soon since my company is moving to a new building where I will be working in a shared workspace without a dedicated desk etc. It’s quite possible that I would prefer working in such an environment while listening to some music (probably mostly at lower volumes). I’m not sure whether I would appreciate “good sound” in such an environment, but if so, I might carry my DT 1990 and DAC/Amp stack between office and home. On the other hand, I might be better off with my old Shure SE215 IEMs (great isolation!) directly connected to my laptop. Or maybe I try to get some new IEMs like the Moondrop Blessing 2 Dusks and only carry something like the Zen DAC with me to drive these (should be way better than the SE215 on laptop audio). So a certian kind of portability would be interesting, but has a low priority (I would always prefer sound quality).

But BTT…

@WaveTheory

If you’re gonna order Schiit gear, I would strongly suggest the Asgard 3 amp. IMO it’s the best <$200 headphone amp on the market right now. With shipping and customs, it might be close to the price of a G103s (?).

Yes, with shipping, customs and taxes one $200 Schiit device will be about 250€ in Germany. The G103-S sells for 269€. BTW, ordering two 200$ Schiit devices together will be 465€ (incl. customs/taxes).

Question: from the ~200-300USD/EUR pricepoint upwards, what would be good examples of recommendable DAC/Amp stacks with balanced outputs regarding price to performance ratio?

I will now dive into reading more stuff on the G103-S and the Asgard 3…

Thank you again for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it!

–Chripo

[Blackscreen]

@WaveTheory

Schiit needs to get their schiit together in international distro, for sure! I was not a fan of the A50s by any stretch. What price can you get a Lake People G103s for? That’s our standard entry-point amp rec for our EU friends.

Schiit’s having a hard time everywhere right now. Tons of backorder products on their site now.

[WaveTheory]

@Chripo

Thank you again for the feedback, I greatly appreciate it!

You’re very welcome. Please do report back once you’ve made decisions.

@Chripo

I will now dive into reading more stuff on the G103-S and the Asgard 3

TBH Lake People reviews are a bit scarce. They are a more pro-oriented company and don’t really send out review units. The reviews out there will be written by owners, mostly. We have a G103s thread:

Lake People G103-S

This is the official thread for the Lake People G103-S Headphone Amplifier This thread is for discussion and reviews. [image] 2 parallel headphone outputs (can be used simultaneously) based on TI LI1876 Readily available in EU! Hifiguides Link [Reviews] Z Reviews

I’m also gonna tag @M0N because he knows about the G103s, and @MazeFrame because he owns one. Hopefully they can help you out.

[Lord_Gormph]

Wish I had read this before getting the DAC and the Zen can

[sebastien_chiu_iFi]

It happens, it’s ok!

[Marzipan]

just sell the CAN. someone who’s got a DAC and needs an amp will buy it!

[Chripo]

@WaveTheory

You’re very welcome. Please do report back once you’ve made decisions.

I have read a lot more about the Asgard 3 and the LP G103s today but couldn’t find a reliable comparison of those with regards to my DT 1990. But I found several posts here and there indicating that the DT 1990 pairs very well with the Asgard 3, as you @WaveTheory already pointed out. So I followed your recommendation and ordered an Asgard 3 in Schiit’s US shop as well as an Ifi Zen DAC v2 together with an iPower supply. The Asgard currently has a delivery time of about 4-6 weeks, international shipment and customs handling will likely delay delivery even more. The Ifi stuff will arrive early next week. I’m really curious how the Zen DAC + Asgard combo will perform with my DT1990.

Sorry for hijacking this nice thread on the Zen Can for something that turned out to be more of a purchase advice. Thanks a lot once again for your comments, I’m now looking forward for listening to music with my nice new gear soon!

–Chripo

[Mundeyn]

I’m loving my zen can paired with the zen dac (v1). And I’ve listened to GTO filter and limoncello filter. At first I thought I like the GTO’s forwardness and analytical but recently switched to limoncello… I find it more enjoyable, relaxing, and laid back sound. Also prefer the limoncello filter on my focal clear MG.

@WaveTheory have you tried the limoncello filter on the zen dac and pair it with zen can? I’d like to hear your impressions and thoughts about it.

[WaveTheory]

I didn’t do any firmware updates. And I can’t anymore because I’ve sold my Zen units.

[Mundeyn]

Ah. Thanks for the update.
Yeah was in the verged of selling the zen stacks or at least the dac when the v2 was announced. But after rolling back the firmware I decided to keep it.

[Blackrao]

limoncello sounds more “organic” aka smooth and rich. i did find it more enjoyable. i found GTO filter more detailed but felt more sterile

[Chripo]

I guess the Zen DAC v2 uses the GTO filter? Since the Limoncello filter was used in an older firmware of v1, it will most likely not be released for v2, right?

[sebastien_chiu_iFi]

I believe the Zen DAC V2 actually comes with 7.2 installed. It does not use the GTO filter stock.