Thanks for that, I have no concern for music as I have the Hifiman Sundara which I love for music, but it won’t work well with consoles as they need a lot of power and they are mediocre for gaming as planars don’t have great imaging for games, even though imaging for music is exceptional.
I’ll probably pick up the TYGR 300 R for gaming. I previously had the HD 560s which is similar to the PC 38x in many regards and found it to be excellent for COD Modern Warfare, but I’m interested in testing the 300 R.
With that said, I’ve learned audio is very subjective and it’s really hard to tell without testing, but I greatly appreciate your feedback.
Yeah, sundara are very nice headphones of the bright signature and some of my favorite outside of course the qc issues of the company.
They are relatively similar indeed, both 560s and pc38x do well in small fps but then again most headphones with good imaging will as smaller fps aren’t as demanding as say something extremely demanding like Tarkov where sound is everything. I would definitely say it’s worth a shot picking up the tygr to see if they are right for you.
oh incredibly so, it’s one of the reasons I try to really be subjective and not so definitive on things… in the end someone could positively love something yet I could hate it to it’s core and we all have our opinions especially in this hobby. I do believe pc38x may be one of those cases though I believe there is some misinformation or misconceptions about it also floating about then again this isn’t remotely surprising considering one of the reviewers went on about how you would need a modded speaker amp just to run a 600 ohm 880 so I guess misinformation can be quite common.
Do you have the Sundara’s pre 2020 or the newer version? I don’t find the newer version to be overly bright and the frequency graphs show them to be extremely neutral with much better bass extension than the original version.
Here’s a great write up on them with measurements taken from the GRAS 43 ag with the KB 500x.
Ok cool, I’ll give the TYGR a shot, they are sold out right now but their customer service said they should be back in stock within the next 2 weeks.
Can you drive the TYGR from a Xbox controller? I don’t want to have to run an amp on the console.
not real big on neutral but I believe mine is a 2020… I have the palipads on mine and everything
I could not run the tygr off the ps4 so I would think no unfortunately. Despite being only 32 ohms for some reason consoles are absolutely awful for driving headphones. MMX300 and in some cases gsp500 and gsp600 suffer from this same issue. You can get a cheap dongle dac of some sort that should be able to drive them fine but not sure on connections to the console in that regard… they sell the fox mic with the tygr for this reason which is unfortunate
Ok, Thanks, I think the xbox controller has quite a bit more power than the PS4 controller does for the headphone output, but may still struggle if they are that hard to drive. I have a Apple USB-C Dac/Amp cable and it is surprisingly excellent. I’ll try that out.
I don’t understand all this hype for the Tygr’s. They lack efficiency and need to dial up my volume significantly to match volumes with other headphones like the HD600, DT1990, Emu Teaks and so on. Not only that but they sound muffled because of that foam disc in front of the driver. I took it out and it sounds much better but somehow lacks bottom end which I’ve been accustomed to from Beyer. Now I’m not a bright signature person, hell no. I love the HD650’s smooth treble. 300r’s are in the sameball park as the HD58x which I also have and those sound cleaner to my ears. Not as veiled as the tygr and has the same midbass presence though the tygr just ever so slightly extend bottom end. Listening to podcasts and vocal content I choose the 58x. For music, probably tygr’s but it’s honestly hard to choose since both don’t have the bass I desire for edm music and so on.
If you can. I highly recommend Superlux HD330’s with aftermarket pads. Sound blows both the hd58x and tygr’s away for cheaper depending on the pads you get.
If not, tygr’s since they have better soundstage for games and bottom end for edm and rap.
that doesn’t sound right… you sure your not a fan of mids? the mids on the tygr are recessed after all and hd 600s are more mid focused meanwhile 1990 is more neutral in that regard.
definitely do not have this issue so that’s rather curious.
well yeah, this makes perfect sense if you prefer vocals… one would generally go with something like sennheiser in this regard for vocal clarity and just general mid range… Beyers aren’t the best option for this case outside of like 880 and T1. Tygrs are a warm signature that’s slightly V shaped(it’s a 990 remake) so it has recession to the mids and a dip in the treble giving it what may appear to be a veil but if you listen to nighthawk carbon or alternative headphones with a more darker treble you will generally get a similar result… it’s just part of the tuning and not for everyone. Some people like it, others prefer a more neutral clean sound, others like me prefer a brighter sound.
also of course depends on if you have an amp… none of this stuff gonna sound too good if your just running off like a strong motherboard or weak unit to begin with
I can only seem to find them on Aliexpress, are these available in the US? Which aftermarket pads do you recommend?
Yea, not super excited about the TYGR being hard to drive. Are they harder than the DT 770 Pro 80 ohm? This seems to be a highly recommended closed back headphone for gaming as well.
Tygrs are 32 ohm which is essentially the maximum of mobile phone usage so barily any power requirement… 80 ohm is more power demanding and will require a higher end unit… this ohm cannot be ran properly off consoles or mobile use without help but can be used on higher end audio motherboards. any higher and your pushing more into amp territory… Theoretically I believe you can actually drive the tygr off the Syba Sonic as it does drive the Shp9500 which are the same ohms those units are like… I think $30
you can find them around here and there but generally youd have to aliexpress or something for this brand. I generally do not recommend them… they are good for what they are. Not good for competitive, alright for music…
Impedance is only half the story and doesn’t actually mean anything without sensitivity rating. The problem with the TYGR is the sensitivity of 96 db. If you have a 80 ohm headphone that has a sensitivity of 110 db it will be far easier to drive than the 32 ohm with a sensitivity of 96 db.
The 560s is 150 ohms but is far easier to drive than my Hifiman Sundara which is 37 ohms but a sensitivity level of 94 db.
yes and theres also the difference with those considering planar vs dynamic… I am fully aware of this
DT 770 80 ohm: Sensitivity by power: 96.28 dB /mW SPL · Average impedance : 93.35
since you have this, you should be fine I would think if its driving your other stuff not sure on the it as I have quite literally never tried that unit
Ok cool, The apple cable is not enough to comfortably drive the Sundara. I use a Fiio K5 Pro for the Sundara as it has a ton of power for them. With that said, Def recommend picking one up, for $8 they are really impressive.
I’ll do a bit more research into the TYGR and other options strictly for gaming, but def curious to check them out. I hope they don’t get rid of the sale price before the new inventory arrives.
Sundara are quite power demanding to my experience with them. Hell all of my planars are like that, especially when I had the Argon in house that thing wants to be drunk with power.
I mean, there’s a ton of options… if its competitive that kind of reduces results but if its just casual regular use… it will depend more on you and what you want out of it along your sound preferences. I love the Tygr but I am not the biggest fan of it despite my recommendations of it… I find the DT 880 to fit my personal preferences much more due to the brightness and mids again though just me. I have a few other friends who swear by audeze or the nighthawks as they like that warmer darker sound
all considering if it can drive just 32 ohms at 96 db that would be rather impressive and a very quick easy fix to problems that some of these headsets face… I have been currently searching for a fix to this issue at the cheapest price possible… its how I came to start looking at the syba but I know dongle dacs are a thing… I believe the soundblaster dongle dac can drive the tygr as well but im positive thats like $30. I will give the apple one a look later on and check it out. Myself personally I use a liquid platinum with bifrost 2 or my asgard if I feel like using that at the time… so power is not an issue for me
Hm… Do you have a Vokyl Erupt, by chance? With Dekoni Elite hybrid pads and Hart cable? If so, how do you feel the Erupt compare in the mix here, between 300 R and the very top(HD800~)?
not anymore, I made my thoughts known on that one a ways back when I had it… It’s still horribly expensive much more than a pc38x so I wouldn’t even bother trying to compare these two considering the fact that after the pad purchase your more than double the price of either tygr or pc38x. The biggest issue post pad swap of the vokyl was just the price tag, the silent quality revision they pulled, and rather poor seperation… considering the stock pads sucked balls in my opinion. However can it outperform the PC38x? In spades if you already have it and have the pads swapped. Comparison to tygrs… well it may have better mids but it’s not laser accurate soundstage they are relatively close and hybrids make the erupt a bit more neutral bright which the brightness gives an edge in fps. Honestly I would say they are a bit neck and neck with the tygr but I mean, your spending double on the vokyl so not worth it if you ask me plus you mention a hart cable so that makes things a bit worse imo lol. I would say… around subjectively pc38x being the worse in that comparison followed by Tygr 300r =(preference)/= vokyl, followed by DT 990(only if competitive gaming otherwise no maybe the 880 if you wanted more vocals), followed by the usual step ups such as 1990 / T1.2, Hifiman products, Denon products post equalizer, etc etc up to the very tip top where Clear and HD800S reign
I mean, less your able to get vokyl super cheap these days I haven’t even bothered to look in a while. Most people don’t really know about that one to my knowledge as it never gets brought up
however post pad swap I will be completely honest… Vokyl does a superb job at competitive gaming… it doesn’t have that “massive soundstage” though and the imaging isn’t laser accurate… depends on how you look at it really.
Clear and HD800, nice to know Haven’t heard a Focal yet, either, but I know a place I can demo both of these from. I have 2 Erupts; orange speckle I got on Ebay, and my original, shiny, non-painted Kickstart pair, fully upgraded lol. I think they rock for the price, but like all phones at this range, they’re not perfect.
I just find the hd800s (not the regular 800 as its not as good imo) quite a bit fatiguing despite being practically perfection for competitive gaming outside of lacking that laser accurate imaging. Clear on the other hand is very good on the imaging but they aren’t very large on the soundstage however they sound absolutely spectacular especially in the mids and highs, granted they aren’t very bassy headphones you can equalize them of course… and I never tried a pad swap on clears so that may help as well though focal pads are very expensive($200 each if I remember right)
Haven’t heard a Focal yet, either, but I know a place I can demo both of these from. I have 2 Erupts; orange speckle I got on Ebay, and my original, shiny, non-painted Kickstart pair, fully upgraded lol. I think they rock for the price, but like all phones at this range, they’re not perfect.