Waiting more your comments on dunu zen. Is it the best thing in the world as it could seem when reading some reviews and forums. Dunu usually makes good stuff and zen looks really high end but how is it compared to lower stuff you have so much experience. Is it worth to invest to it vs 200 or 300 hudred level good iems. And vs fd5 in your mind is it worth 2 times the price exept different tunings without having high end daps to support zens “amazingess”
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The hype on the Zen thread at head-fi is overhyped. But it is good and better than the stuff I have overall.
My review for it will include me using it on 3 different setups and I got like 9 different iems in the comparison section (Ibasso DX160, JDS Atom and the Schiit Asgard 3) so it is taking a lot longer than usual for me to do this review.
Although I cant comment on low-end sources since the sources I have are very good. It is very sensitive though, so I dont think you need a lot of power to drive it.
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Rikudou_Goku, i think your review will be really in time because now not every part of this talking about zen is clear for me. I believe it should be good but we know that 600 700 hundred is alot for many iem lover so we should know what is all about. And your experiemce will let uncover the truth in comparison to familiar lower tier iems.
And source related thought, somewhere saw that 160 dx is already not capable to bee good partner for zen ( which as a dap with lurker mod i feel really one of the best mid tier dap) so if it is truth then to zens price adding high end daps price and we have aaa loottt of moneys to spent to reach this “zen” 
I havent tried my other sources yet, but I dont think the DX160 does anything particularly wrong with it though.
I believe my source synergy for the Zen is this: Atom < DX160 < Asgard 3
But this is my prediction right now without trying the other 2 (and thats also what pretty much all my other iems rank with them).
Which sources do you have? I think I missed this if you mentioned about it with a previous post.
Ibasso DX160 (portable)
Topping E30 → JDS ol switcher → JDS Atom (desktop)
Topping E30 → JDS ol switcher → Schiit Asgard 3 (desktop)
Although I can already tell you that if you listen to classic/acoustic music, where real instruments are being played and where violins/cymbals are important. I dont rec the Zen for that. The upper-treble roll-off affects those 2 instruments a ton, not to mention that it is killing a lot of the air and micro-details that are present in that region (which affects the rest of the sound).
But if you listen to electronic music, then I do rec it. Its actually awesome for that.
Thanks, so bassically it is not so universal iem doing everything right as it looks from forums. I see hypers talking like it is tuned ideally. If these higher part of frequencies is not so revealing then it is small problem for me but still. Willing to spent their price iem should be as much universal in all genres. For me atleast. If someone could have different iems for different genres at this level it is ok. So this is already good info Rikudou. Will see what else you will find and what conclusion you will get.
It is a bit strange, because the tuning that they went for it is actually versatile.
Bass is enough for both acoustic and more bass focused tracks, mids are very good and even the lower treble is actually very good (despite the graph saying it should have a lot more quantity than I should be able to handle).
It is just that upper-treble that is the achilles heel of the Zen, it really is detrimental to micro-details and cymbals/violins. So that alone makes it less versatile than it would have been if it did not roll-off.
So this makes it a “jack of all trades, master of none” type of iem.
Strange, it should be done by Dunu intentionally. But for what purpose then. For less fatigue ? Dynamic drivers could have less details than something like hybrids with armatures but this is dunu and dynamic has good technicalities at this level so it should be able to reveal all details to microdetails in the source without any problem so in this part fd5 is more revealing as i understand? This part as the weakest in zens tuning noticed already other reviewer. Lacks extra airiness that should put it to even higher level.
Generally, BA only and hybrid iems are more technical than single DDs. But that generalization shouldnt matter as much in the tier we are with the Zen.
It could be Dunu´s “house tuning” to have a treble roll-off like that:
(DK3001 Pro is a hybrid)
Or it could be because DDs with bigger driver and/or stiffer materials have it harder to do the upper-treble right.
(EX1000 and Xelento are very well regarded single DDs and especially the EX1000 having a “legendary” status.)
I have no idea which one is the right answer, but it is a problem in the Zen regardless of why it exists.
The micro-details and the sense of air (psycho acoustics) are heavily bottlenecked because of that upper-treble roll-off (10khz+ area).
Meanwhile the FD5 has no problems with it.
And I do hear more micro-details from it (and a lot of other iems as well) than the Zen.
Good graphs to see that strange thing in that area you are talking about. Really why it is here only dunu tuners could aswer this. This part is very important for many higher register instruments so this is more strange for such famous brand. Not some cheap noname manufacturer so they should know what are doing. Anyway ex 1000 also as you you say is classical model but it has alternative bad tuning in that area that spike that is also reaponsible for too much treble energy here. Both brands knew what they are doing and still both made it in their own way bad. But ofcourse it is only graph not saying much about iem as a whole. And could be partially fixed by eq i quess. Still fd looks wayyyy better here.
yeah, the EX1000 needs eq for the entire treble range lol.
I have seen worse ofcourse but at these prices i would love to have flatter curve in both flat sometime here is really good.
Rikudou one additional question , your source amp Asgard3 is better than atom with your iems? How do you think. You imported asgard from states with added taxes. Was it worth for you from sound perspective ?
I love the Asgard 3 and I paid almost double the price for it.
I practically never use the Atom for my iems. But my source ranking would be: Atom < DX160 < Asgard 3
Thanks for sharing. You should be in serious realationship with asgard at that double price you payed. But ofcourse this i understand and it will understad all serouos audio fanatics. I had some thought to go to asgard but not for iem but for planars but as i have good technical and revealing topping stack then i decided better go with their loki as an option to tweak sound without digital eq ( no pc connected ) it is better way to tweak sound for preferences than changing to similar level amp with possibly warmer tuning. This is ofcourse for stuff from states
yeah, if you dont have your source connected to a pc it will be hard for you to have access to a digital EQ.
The Schiit loki does look nice and I was interested in it a bit. But it doesnt give you that many options in tweaking the sound as a digital PEQ gives you.
That was a deliberate decision made by Dunu for the Chinese audience. You can see Dunu rep’s statement in SBAF forum.
Yes, the Chinese market love their upper mids. They have a term for iems that boost that area, “female poison”.
For many westerners, that is called shouty lol.
Yeah right loki only for small tweaks. In your case it is not best solution. In my case i want it mainly for sundara that i like a lot but they need added bass shelf for my taste. Like good low end and sundara gives quality and control but with small quantity. And with this shiit eq you could be free from any pc or digital eq related. And planars are know for their eq possibilities and tolerance without noticable distortions. So loki ideal for that. Only it is rare here in europe as everything shiit related. Sometimes i feel living in europe is like living in third world country compared to states or east asia when looking what is available here and for what prices.