Do you recommend the TH610 without mods?
Yes very much recommend them!
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But ZMF pads are around $60-70. Iām just saying that fostex charges quite a bit for non memory foam pleather pads. Focal is even worse with their replacement pads costing HUNDREDS of dollars for a single pair. Sennheiser is also pretty bad with their HD600 pads costing $50 which is about the same as the very nice dekoni pads (sadly sennās own are the best way to preserve the sound).
Speaking of pads, Iāve been listening with the Lawton pads and Iām rather enjoying them. They are clean, clear, and still have very nice sub-bass extension. In fact the extension keeps surprising me. If you donāt like ābigā or āmuddyā bass, the Lawton pads with Ovaltine attenuation rings are a really good option (with type 4 woods cups).
Edit: Lawton pads are still a bit too expensive, but Lawton is a small business so it can slide
I think I formulated a completely non-scientific, strait from my ass theory as to why the stock X00 pads and dekoni pads sounded kind of congested to me now with the Lawton cups when they sounded good with stock PH cups.
I think that it is a difference of air volumes between the front and back of the driver. These bass only have just enough space for an ear and very little else, so it is substantially less air than is behind the driver. This (Iām guessing) results in the driver trying to do something that the volume of air behind it would allow, but it is then hampered by the limited volume of air in front of it. The Ori pads and Lawton pads have larger air volumes so this doesnāt happen and the stock cups had less air behind the driver so the pads where never a bottle neck. (Like I said, I pulled this out if my ass so it may very well be totally bullshit)
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Hereās an updated Harman 2017 Curve of the Stellia vs Stock TH610.
You can see the slightly hollowed lower midrange, boosted bass and recessed highs of the Stellias.
You can also see the elevated 6K-8K peak in the TH610 that i believe the Lawton Chechen Chambers have fixed. The bottom end is also much fatter by comparison. I can listen on the iBasso DX220 AMP8 at elevated volumes with no fatigue anymore!
TH610vsStellia_Harman_Curve by Hilton, on Flickr
I bought a balanced cable from Periapt for about $90.00US, plus shipping.
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Have you tried any other cups yet?
Here you can see the hugely raised and boomy bottom end of the TH900s and the extra sharpness they have that caused the extreme sibilance that the TH610 has somewhat less of a problem with in that 6K range.
Notice TH610 is also alot smoother.
It will be interesting to measure the TH610 difference in the chambers once I get the minidsp ears!
TH610vsTH900mk2-harman2017_curve by Hilton, on Flickr
TH900 uncorrected very V shaped and peaky in the trebleā¦ exactly how it sounds to me.
TH900 by Hilton, on Flickr
TH610 uncorrected very flat with just a slight peak at 6k that I can confirm the Lawton Chambers have tamed! (at least in the Wild Chechen anyway)
TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
You can compare a bunch of different specs here at Keiths site.
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No thatās tonightās mission to go to the other extreme and try the Black Limbas. 
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Youtube video of Wild Chechen to Black Limba change over inboundā¦ 
Black Limba only a subtle difference in sound so far but definitely a little warmer sounding in the 70- 120hz regionā¦ No sign of sibilance.
Lawton Black Limba TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
Lawton Black Limba TH610 by Hilton, on Flickr
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Youtube video of Wild Chechen to Black Limba Lawton Chamber Changeover on TH610.
1080p is up - 4K is up!
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Man, those cups are beauties!
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Hello,
Thanks @Hilton for your great comments and video.
Very commendable of you,
.
I have a question for you, can you possibly say or judge whether the cups like the game chechen more V or W shape is and to the other cups you will still test?
Simply also to get an impression of it.That would be very helpful for me later when I want to buy some.
One more question comes to mind.
You describe that the new cups would have no hissing sounds.
What do you actually mean exactly by that?
As from my side, I only know that the mahogany of the Tr x00 series like to have hissed.
With the Denon D2000 was standard nothing to perceive of it and after conversion to the Emu cups also not.
Can it be that it hisses with pleasure with the Th610?
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Hi @Deleeh
I suspect all cups will have a similar sound but the lighter woods (1-2) will have more reverb and more warmth, while the heavier woods (4-5) will have less reverb and be cleaner and more dynamic.
I would say the sound is maybe slightly more V shaped but thatās not really an accurate assessment.
I would rather say the bass from 100hz and down has been elevated, while the rest of the range stays mostly the same. With the new cups Itās like Iāve added 4-5db eq from 100hz and down and taken 2-3db off at 6khz. Which is roughly the EQ profile I was running in my RME ADI-2 DAC - I was running +3.5db @ 70hz and -2 to -3db @ 6Khz but no longer require that. However, with the new cups, the bass is not only boosted like with eq, it has more impact and warmth as well.
As far as the Sibilance goes (what you are translating as hiss) , the S and T sound of some singing and the cymbals sometimes have a very sharp piercing sound around 6khz in the stock TH610, and really badly in the TH900MKii. The Lawton cups have reduced that slightly to a point where itās hardly noticeable at all. (either that or my ears are used to it - but I suspect it is reduced)
Iāll be sure to post more impressions once Iāve had some more time with the various cups.
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Just some insight to the cup design from Mark - Iām sure he wont mind me sharing his thoughts on my questionā¦ How did you decide on the size of the cups??? to which he repliedā¦ (that I agree with completely)
"Myself, I feel one can only obtain just so much info from measurements, the real test is listening.
Rather than just making a copy of the original cups, we wanted to make as many improvements as possible to the design.
Cups serve a purpose, acting as a combination of speaker cabinet and body of a musical instrument.
If you treat them seriously this way, you can get a lot more out of the headphone itself.
We are on the second generation of our cups, original versions (2008-2011) were also deeper than stock cups and were an excellent upgrade.
Ultimately, with some very sophisticated new equipment providing almost total control, we were able to do everything we ever wanted in terms of perfecting the shape inside and out, getting wall thicknesses to taper just right, etc.
Development of the current generation was extended, many forms/shapes were tried before we reached the shape you now see.
I may be in minority, but I genuinely prefer closed to open headphones, all other things being equal.
But the catch always is reduction of soundstage size and a bit of a reverberant āsea shellā effect.
Bigger cups with correct internal volume and shape really help push the soundstage out.
We use a small piece of acoustic foam inside the cups which helps prevent some of the internal reflections which also helps the enclosure disappear a bit.
Customers are constantly surprised at what a difference cups can make.
Enjoy!
Mark Lawton"
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Wow - Im just super amazed and thrilled how good these sound!
The more you crank the volume the more they punch you in the head!
Sounds maybe even better than my dual 10" subs in my room system! (which are tuned for a slight bass boost but not boomy bass)
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@Hilton i havent been following all your recent posts very closely but just wanted to make sure you are aware about the risk of stripping the cups if you install and uninstall multiple times.
Regardless, glad you are enjoying your new cups and the various signatures
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Yes aware of the potential. Being very careful to only tighten to just past finger tight which should minimise the risk. Fortunately you can offset to create a new set of holes a couple times if needed before it really becomes a problemā¦ though Iāll try to avoid that!
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Ordered a Fostex balanced cable from Hart to go with it.
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