I have used my DT1990 Pros and have had no issues with imaging in COD, but I can’t say specifically about the VSS. I think all headsets have a bit of mental burn-in where you need to get used to the new imaging sounds compared to ones you have been using for a while.
I used to think the imaging was better on my MH752 for a while before really trying the DT 1990 Pros. What I found was that the imaging is a lot more nuanced. My MH752s and even my Sennheiser 58x’s have very simple and separated imaging of left, center, and right (due to the intimate soundstage). My DT1990 Pros felt more nuanced with inbetween imaging. My brain wasn’t used to hearing things slightly left of the center or slightly right so I had issues distinguishing this until I got used to it. Once my ears got used to it, I could make more accurate calls on where the enemy was in relation to me compared to general left, right, or in front.
As a side note, also remember to set the audio mix to boost highs in CoD for really pinpointing footsteps. While the Studio Reference setting is better in a musical sense, for gaming it can drown out the footsteps and other noise. The stronger bass response in the Beyers can drown out the footsteps compared to weaker bass headphones like certain Senns (which usually have a lush midrange) and some gaming headsets (some of which are treble focused for better competitive performance). On the Studio Reference setting, I had issues with the Beyers unless I was really upping the volume at which point I was killing my ears just to hear everything in a well balanced and perfect way.
If the issue with 1990 is clamp and weight then look into t1 2nd gen as it’s quite a bit lighter and much less on clamp. It has more bass, but is just as good and has benefits of more scaling from higher quality equipment, more relaxed sound, and smoother treble however slightly brighter. Note that 1990 with b pads is bassier.
As for k712. That’s a tough one not at my station right now on that… it has a more balanced out signature but recessed bass which places it in a strange spot if your okay with more brightness though… the helios and sundara will work both I would say are a form of upgrade albeit brighter
Can anyone recommend the best closed back headset or headphone w/ ModMic for competitive gaming up to $250-$300? I looked through all the flagships of the major gaming peripheral companies and audio companies. The ones that intrigue me the most are the AudioTechnica M60x w/ ModMic, Ultrasone 580i w/ ModMic, and Sennheiser GSP 600. I don’t need any music or immersive quality at all, just great imaging and competitive gaming audio.
Hey there nyj, i saw your post you made on this but it will take me quite a bit to type.
According to your other post you already own the 1990… do you have any issues with this headphones brightness? Something to know before making a suggestion
Nope. I actually love the DT1990 for music and gaming. The imaging on it is stellar to my ears. I had no issues with the brightness either. It does get fatiguing for music from time to time so I switch to the Sennheiser HD 58x when this occurs.
I just need closed backs to switch to when my girlfriend turns on the TV to watch Netflix, TV Shows, or a movie from time to time. I was using the MH752s for this, but my right earcup screw became loose and fell. I requested an RMA, since I am under warranty, but someone said it took Cooler Master a month or so to get them a replacement. In that time, I can probably just get new pair and use the MH752’s as a backup or strictly on my console. Then I figured if I am shelling out around $100 for the replacement, why not up the budget and get something premium.
I currently have a EVGA NU Audio card which has a decent headphone amp (but nothing stellar). I will likely upgrade to a Topping E30, L30 stack soon though. Or maybe even the Topping A90 with a Soncoz LA-QXD1.
Ah okay good makes finding you a headphone rather easy in this regard.
It will take them a bit, so an upgrade doesn’t hurt… they are quite nice for your use case. As far as headsets go on the closed market there isn’t better performing yet outside of the steel series and orbit but this is only because of there preset equalizer allowing them to have the correct signature… they still suck for soundstage and imaging is only decent.
Start out mid way since you have the evga number. Something like the l30 is decent… though I’d recommend something from schiit or lake people.
As for headphones this is quite easy… best sound stage best imaging is the dt 770 and its step up brethren… dt 1770 is nice and 177x go is a subtle v or rather one harman like to my ear… all share that soundstage and imaging just difference In signature. The main concern is the bass as closed backs naturally come with more bass… it’s not too bad out of the box but on pc just use peace apo, it’s free, to dial it back where you need it
As you already really like the 1990 this should work perfect for you, more so if you prefer b pads on the 1990 as the increased bass are similar. I should add… if you wanted to turn a dt 770 wireless you can but you need to mod it or have it modded to have a detached 3.5mm cable. Then just need a blue tooth 3.5mm adapter
I thank you for this write up. Not many places have good info on headphones for gaming other than “gaming headsets”.
I recently bought a pair of ad700x to upgrade from my 6+ year old hd558s but the ad700x fitment for me is really bad. I had to bend the top just to keep them on my head and even then they still feel lose and slide around.
So after reading your suggestions I was think about trying a pair of the dt880 600ohm. I only wear headphones to play competitive games mostly fps and chating with friends.
My question is will the fulla 3 that I already own run these headphones or would i need to look at something else? And for a $300 budget would any other headphone be better fit for me before I go 100% with the dt880’s?
Yep thanks, please keep in mind this in midst edit. So alot if info will be changing when I get it finished.
Ah yea, that’s one of the bigger issues with that headphone is fit… granted also a flip in signature… lot less bass on the 700x compared to 558
I doubt you will have build issues on that one lol. If the clamp is too much it just needs stretch over its box for like 3 days so it loosens up to preference.
Fulla 3 cannot drive the 600 ohm version. It can drive 250 ohm but not to absolute full potential. You would need an amp upgrade in the $100 range. 600 ohm sounds better but 250 should be considered as well as both are good. You can just use your fulla 3 as a dac and plug it into a dedicated amp… let’s you keep the mic port, granted I would recommend a dac upgrade later.
In the $300 budget, due to the weakness of your amp, no there is nothing that comes to mind in terms of strictly competitive gaming better in this regard.
You can find the dt 880 from $125 - $200 and a liquid spark(or other amps listed) from $60 - $100. Shopping smart will definitely save you
Hifishark, reverb, adorama, ebay, amazon, r/avexchange, head-fi, and here on the buy/sell looking for thread are all great places to use. Please know that buying third party you should take precautions to protect yourself. Use PayPal, request invoice from PayPal for sale, request images showing product condition, in the images request a placard with their writing of username the date and time this way proving ownership. Having all of this allows paypal to protect you from scams
Edit: the only other alternative that came to mind here is if your treble sensitive look into the tygr 300r as the alternative to the dt880. This will run off your fulla no problem
Yeah. It’s kind of an oxymoron closed-back with good imaging (due to the resonance from the closed cup). I am okay with the weaker soundstage as long as the imaging is good. At least, the best imaging a closed back can offer that is.
At this point, I do prefer wired to wireless and plan on plugging the headset into an amp (though I doubt any will scale). The Orbit is kind of the exception as it can’t plug into an amp (at least safely). Mmm, I guess I might leave the Orbit out for now. I had it as an interesting choice and a planar option. But I’d rather be able to use my own DAC and amp chain.
I actually prefer the A pads on the DT 1990. After A/Bing (literally) the two, I found the B pads made the bass a tad muddy sounding to me compared to the As. I now have Dekoni Fenestrated Pads though that I am enjoying, but I just got them so it will take me a month probably to really hear a difference.
I had the DT770s on my list as everyone recommends them for gaming. But I guess part of me wants to try something that’s not a Beyer. If it is truly the best choice I will probably have to go with them. Do you know how the Ultrasone 580i or the AudioTechnica M60x compare? If the DT770s are superior to both then I will have to consider it my closed back winner regardless. However, the step-up DT177X is a bit out of budget and close enough in price to where I might just move onto my next headphone purchase of a Argon T60RP. Would you happen to know how the imaging is for the T60RP Argon?
As for dedicated headsets, the Steelseries Arctis Pro seems to be your top wired pick then? How does it compare to the Sennheiser GSP 600? I have a soft spot for Sennheiser as their U320 and later their Game One were the first gaming headsets I had where I felt like I had something close to audiophile. They kind of opened me up to higher end headphones. I think after whittling down to a best headset vs best headphone w/ modmic combo, I will have to make a final decision haha.
Not really anything to note… just weren’t impressive. I’d take the mh752 over it if that helps explain.
The reason I have a hard time recommending these is just that the sound is kinda of meh. So the m50x just sucks let’s not get into that lol. The m60x is a bit more of a bright headphone but there’s a hard dip in the low mids which makes it sound a bit off to my ear. Now the m40x were nice they are a subtle v out of the box and all 3 need a pad swap but I felt as far as sound went the m40 and m60 were too similar to justify such price tag differences. At the same time if I wanted v or bright… I get that out of the beyers but it’s just so much better… also the 770s have a ridiculously large soundstage for being a closed back not to mention superb imaging. If you want to audio technica though they will work and are more portable if your into that… up to you on that. As far as gaming performance in competition 770 wins followed by m60 then the m40
Eh you gotta shop round a bit… they do show up rather cheap every now and then. Argons on the other hand are very hard to get right now due to all the discontinuation and modhouse moving.
I had a very short time with them… I’d say beyers won on the imaging but the soundstage on the argons were massive and definitely won… however argons are not closed back they are semi opens. Imaging though… I want to say maybe slightly less than the 880 but better than say a 58x jubilee so respectable
Too much in the bass, headset is large and bulky, its passable but not more than the steel series only if dac is included.
Even in that regard a step up would be going from $200 up to the $600 margin to be met with better results. 770 for. Closed back, 880 for the most ideal sound semi open, 990 if you can handle that much brightness but wanted more bass full open, tygr300r for bass that’s not in the way and no ear piercing brightness but better soundstage and imaging than the 880
The only subjective better alternative would be a sundara but this is very different in sound and is very bass lite with potential qc issues… sundara would be better for music
If anyone has other questions for me feel free to ask or just message me directly on here.
The last two were beyer suggestions only due to specific circumstance, I wanted to say that as after rereading it I thought it made me sound a bit biased. It boils down to just how strictly ideal you want the headphone for competitive… outside of strict competition or being well rounded the recommended headphones and this list would respectfully change.
Once I get my net back I will try to get back to working on the rewrite to this one. Quite alot to dig through… nets been out for a month and I’ve been responding from my phone lol. Thx to everyone for the kind words and I look forward to helping others if I can.
First off, I want to say thanks for the help! I narrowed down my options quite a bit.
Second, if I go with the 770s, would you say the 250 Ohm or the 80 Ohm version with a Topping L30? Does one perhaps have a better tuned competitive sound than the other?
Third, since I am not using any usb connector and going to use a E30 DAC to L30 Amp, would the Arctis still be your choice for wired gaming headset out of all the gaming companies? I am still deciding between the Arctis Pro (without a gamedac), Logitech Pro, and Sennheiser GSP 600.
My only issue with getting the 770 is that I have the 177X on my purchase list for the future. So any money I put towards the 770 feels like a bit of a waste when it could just go towards a 177X purchase.
The higher ohm beyers just sound more refined and are the higher quality of sound. L30 should have no problems driving the 250.
Connectors mean nothing in terms of the sound performance. Topping stack is pointless regarding gaming handsets and may as well not be used. I’d never tell anybody to buy that logitech as its just over hyped “pro” shiller garbage. The other two are fine. Then again I don’t see a reason to buy a headset if your using a 770 already as that would be just throwing money away. I would not recommend trying to use a low ohm headset on such a powerful amp, as you run the risk of blowing the headset or damaging your ears
Just because the 177x is the next model and is more expensive does not immediately make it better. In quite a few cases I’d say 770s were better than 1770s. Price point does not by any means dictate “better”. 177x is nice for a few reasons… ampless, portable due to ampless, of the 3 it has the most balanced signature but may be deemed boring depends on ones preference, has a slightly cleaner sound. Note can only run ampless on average optimal motherboards and phones with stronger audio chips.
Really up to you the difference between a gaming headset and a headphone is incredibly large… headsets are cheap easy access options but have a lot of cut corners. Steel series arctis pro is practically overpriced junk in comparison as is the gsp series. Even in the case of something such as an m40x walks all over those gaming headsets. In the end, it boils down to user preference, sound preference, and comfort.
Yeah, I’m pretty much down to the GSP 600 vs the DT 770 w/ ModMic. I am heavily leaning DT 770 though with maybe some Dekoni Pads that might help ease the sound. Do you know any Dekoni Pads that might help it’s sound quality or imaging quality?
The reason I mentioned the connectors was mainly to show I don’t benefit from any included USB DAC or DSP settings. So just looking at the headphone itself rather than the USB DSP/DAC benefits that some may receive. I understand the GameDAC is a great benefit of the Arctis and the Logitech Pro also has some USB benefits in the form of BlueVoice. There is also the use of DTS Headphone:X included in the USB connections of some gaming headsets. And as I said, I doubt that my own DAC/Amp chain would provide any benefit aside from a clean source and ample power. I’d definitely keep the gain down on more sensitive, low ohm headphones though.
Yeah, I just picked the 177X as I heard they were better sounding than the normal 1770. But looking through it, it seems people preferred the more relaxed and consumer-oriented tuning of the 177X, which makes me think it’s probably less useful for competitive gaming.
Since I’m looking for imaging, it seems that nothing beats the DT 770 unless aided by USB DACs/DSP options. I understood that almost all headphones will beat these gaming headsets in music listening, but I was focused on pure imaging quality over sound production. I was hoping that some of the gaming headsets might have some advantages in that regard, but it seems that most of those benefits are from specific tuning done via DSP by the manufacturers.
So, you mentioned you had the mh752 with an rma right? Considering this I think it fair to cross off the gsp 600 as while fun sounding the mh752 is better for competitive while gsp is the more fun like rpg kind of headphone due to the bass however you can easily tinker with the sound of the mh752 thanks to the software equalizer
As for pads easing the sound, if you can handle 1990 you should be just fine with 770. However, pad swaps are not going to help regarding imaging… so far in my experience this is rarely ever the case and when it does effect imaging it’s usually fairly negligible when it comes to gaming.
As for sound qualities, depends on the signature your looking for so I can’t totally recommend anything due to that as changing pads alters the sound.
Ah okay, without the added dac to the arctic I’d say the gsp600 potentially pulls ahead in that regard. The additives is the only thing that makes arctis. Think of it like a car… you have the base trim but then you have the trim with all the bells and whistles but it’s the same car. That’s the arctis. Its remained one of the “best” headsets for a long time now. The sad part is that it gets bested by a $50 shp9500 with a $30 v Moda mic.
As for sennheiser, its sennheiser… the sound quality is good it’s just the gsp series tuning is not very good due to overwhelming bass, the build is bulky and rather unwieldy yet comfortable, the “veil” you hear some mention for the brand is there, and you have the common issue of sennheiser where the soundstage is rather narrow like most of their headphones. Intimate sennheisers are nice but not that great for large scale fps where that soundstage governs how far you can place a gunshot. I do like the gsp series I own the 500 as I didnt like the 600 but it definitely doesnt fit well with competitive. Game one over there train wrecks gsp in terms of competitive. Pc38x was designed off of gsp 500 and they are close to the same headphone open back just without the bass issue.
So, I will say that yes… the 177x isn’t as good but it is more inviting and relaxing. It isn’t one of those that just rips the sounds apart but it’s so much better than 1770 as that one had alot of issues with sibilance and cases of rma. For regular use listening, 177x is fantastic and imo leagues better than the other two but 770 is best for competitive between those 3. After 770 there are other options… but are more musical than gaming.
Its kind of a thing with beyer as a brand. Even aided by usb dac or dsp it stands out. The 770 is a strange one as despite being closed it has a shocking large soundstage with beyers crazy imaging. I haven’t tried a beyer that suffers on imaging… there lineup generally has a large soundstage even the earbuds soul byrd which is incredibly weird, there main issues are typically lacking bass fullness/body, heavily recessed mids/vocality, or highs so sharp its painful or incredibly grainy. Due to the nature of bright signatures being best for competitive ideally it really narrows it down. Audio technica ad series fits in there but barely competes with beyer till you count ad1000 and above, hifiman makes fantastic bright planars but they are pricey and have quality control issues… also primarily open back, beyer is a mix bag of bright or v signature and are built like a tank but they generally have ridiculous imaging however they lose on soundstage to hifiman, sennheiser is the middle ground… everything’s averaged and neutral but extremely good clean sound… in terms of quality of sound I’d say they are better than beyer honestly, you get audeze who makes dark planars with like two bright planars all much higher price bracket, dan Clark’s aeon are another v signature but more like 177x so Harman turned, and others like fostex t series where it fits every use case due to modifications if you want to spend a ton on pads and stuff
Unfortunately Imaging is a spot where headsets fail the most. Sennheiser are one of the special cases where it’s not bad but not great either. Most of the time you’ll get exceptional left to right maybe even forward but when it comes to diagonal, above, below, and behind they fail big time. The arctis fails the imaging as well.
At the same time imaging is not everything in your games… yes it is one of the most important aspects but take a dark headphone and face it against a bright one and you easily see more accurate placement results from human hearing because brightness and upper mids put the footsteps and other subtle sounds more forward. It’s due to this that dt 1990 is absolutely ridiculous and overkill because it ticks all the boxes… only ideally bested by subjectively ananda and hd800s
Thanks for the help! Just ordered the DT 770 250 Ohm with a ModMic. Looking forward to the difference from the MH752. I know they’ll be indestructible and repairable if broken due to Beyer’s build quality. So no more RMA’s, hopefully. Honestly, I just hope it isolates the noise in the background well as my gf’s shows sometimes distract me in the middle of CS, Valorant, or Warzone. It’s definitely irked a few of my teammates.
And yeah, Sennheiser has a bad relationship with closed backs overall it seems. I don’t remember the last time I’ve heard of a Sennheiser closed back reaching any acclaim versus their open backs. I can imagine this is why the GSP 500 is so nice.
If it needs repaired it will probably be from driver rattle which is noticeable or imbalance again noticeable… it happens but not often. I would of recommended you to dig around though… hell I got my 770s for $97 brand new 250 ohms
You should notice similarities to the dt 1990 if you ever put b pads on… of course this is changeable through pad swaps.
It is velour so maybe, suggest you grab some choice leather or fenestrated. Both are going to add a alot more soundstage the fenestrated adds a lot of air too which is nice. Don’t do sheepskins. Hybrids keep it closest to it’s natural signature and velours will emphasize it
Agreed, they just don’t make real nice closed backs imo.
Edit: do keep in mind… dig around a bit mmx300 is extremely similar to dt770 and does not require amplification unless you get it in its 600 ohm variation(special order only). That version has a good mic… out of any “headset” I have tried that thing is a monster… its biggest issue was price tag. 2nd generation is great but not worth more than the regular dt770. I usually recommend just dt770 as its cheaper and has the original signature
Little update, I am sending the DT 1990s back, they are too much for me. I have some sensory issues and I think they play with them, I will stick with my K712 Pros for now and when I get the refund maybe I will look at other headphones 100-400 euro range. Maybe more.