Yes, I find it hard to make out a sounds position on headphones. Even on K702.
Yeah, itâs interesting because headphones certainly have the benefit of far distance imaging due to greater soundstage but hereâs the thing: as humans we actually arenât very good at interpreting things far away as opposed to close-up. So, for instance, we canât really tell if something is stationary and making a sound from 10 meters or 15 meters away where as if something is within 1 meter of our ears weâre very good at pinpointing it. So, in that case, headphones with wide soundstage are a neat parlor trick but the real immersion is IEMs with their superior near-head imaging, IMO.
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I will watch the video as soon as I get to my office on at least one headphone and two iems.
I understand the audiology concepts of what you just said, but my own experience completely flys in the face of it.
I also seem to be the only person on the planet that doesnât like the arya because of its imaging and soundstage. (Also, other reasons, but that is a big one)
I just might be weird. 
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From my experience, imaging on headphones has been far better than with IEMs. It becomes very obvious when playing FPS games like COD:MW 2019 which has incredible sound development and positional location is extremely well done.
With headphones, especially my TYGR300R, I know exactly where those foot steps are coming from both in distance and direction. The only IEM Iâve been able to get somewhat close to this is the Mangird Teaâs, but all other IEMs Iâve tested have not done well with this.
For music as well, the Sundaraâs imaging is far better than even the Teaâs which are one of the best âbudgetâ sets for imaging. Using my test tracks from Tool it becomes instantly obvious.
Then, comparing any IEM Iâve ever tried to the Hifiman HE6SE V2, itâs not even close. The imaging on the HE6SE V2 is incredible. I ended up returning them due to discomfort (I would get a major hot spot on the top of my head after 20 min or so), but the sound and imaging was incredible on them.
I personally disagree that IEMâs image better than over ears and would argue the opposite, comparable price brackets of over-ears do imaging better than IEMâs. Thereâs some notable exceptions, like the Sennheiser HD6X0 series which are known for poor imaging.
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I agree with this. Headphones (specifically open-backs) are superior to iems when it comes to the size of the soundstage and the accuracy of the imaging. (detail on the other hand, is better on iems for me, especially sub 300 usd)
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Yes indeed, I just keep my k702 around for soundstage.
So, I am comparing hp-2, zen and timeless using the suggested youtube video. There is no question that the timeless is flatter than the others. However, there is also no question that the hp-2 has stuff coming at you from âall around youâ in ways that the other two donât.
Creepy whispers aside, I do think that the sheer size of the soundstage on the hp-2 is a big part of it. The zen has a small, comfortable soundstage to me. Intimate but not claustrophobic. The timeless is just different. Havenât figured out how to describe it properly yet.
Would love to hear an IEM that does imaging better than these two do. (Will try the dusk later)
Hi @Resolution , i have compared some gears that i have, between 2 iems: SA6 (BAs) vs Flare Pro 2HD (1DD). Now i can understand what slam is. Though Flares are not the fastest DD, i just felt the slam. I am once again so comfortable with my library. But im still curious about Timeless, because i have no planar 
Can you compare SA6 and Timeless? Look like Timeless is bit shoutier SA6?
When I say this, keep in mind that I have extremely sensitive hearing in 1-2k and fantastic up to 3k (very obvious in my audiologist report). So, energy over the typical harman curve there is very intense for me.
Basically, wait for some more assessments to make any decision.
Hi @Dynamic I just scroll up and read you comment, said it is âscreechyâ. I am sorry but I dont understand what it means exactly 
i am Asian so i am not good at english. I translated it and it appeared to be âloud, long not, unpleasant to hearâ. So, it is worse than shouty?
If you want help with that, I can. 
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I can help you with that, based on your nickname in here I can safely say I know which country you live in
I think I already didâŠ
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Iâm planning to order my timeless on hifigo. Do they offer delayed 14 day paypal payment?
I totally want help with that! Interestingly, whatever it is doing, I think I like it. I just havenât worked out how to describe it to others.
I explained it earlier in the thread but we were also discussing stage an imaging in the EJ07 threadâŠ
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Pfftttt, thatâs trademarked.
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If you look at my Timeless stage illustration, I see the Timeless stage as being considerably far away from the listener, squeezed and everything occurring behind glass where no audio events are allowed to come forward and pop out at the listener.
Hybrids and Tribrids do this holographic stage (popping out of the stage all around your head with pinpoint accuracy) usually better than all single driver IEMs for whatever reason.
In addition, the imaging that occurs behind the glass feels/sounds blurry and completely undefined compared to IEMs that do imaging well. Itâs all very strange because the Timeless portray the music with such resolution but the imaging and positioning of audio events feels compressed/blurry/undefined behind that glass pushed out in front of the listener.
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When itâs worse, itâs much worse. Interestingly, I havenât heard anything approach the master of puppets S&M version at all. That song is just obscenely intense on these IEMs. The other stuff that typically triggers it isnât really a problem. (Sabotage by beastie boys is typical a problem for vocal, but not here. Timeless is actually better than the zen on that test)
So, I think the fedora cap in the FR is what is doing it. I have not had any other headphone with that kind of energy increase there. At the same time the 12k ish spike may be adding to it. Most headphones I have owned start roll off in the upper treble. Definitely donât have spikes.
In other news, I ran another test I hadnât done yet: Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring Extended Edition. There are key points I listen to for a lot of headphones. It helps judge imaging, dynamic range, impact/slam, environmental control⊠etc.
Short version: Timeless is not for movies. Sonically it is wonderful. But the imaging, soundstage and slam makes it feel⊠lacking? Galadrielâs voice loses some of its power. The ring drop on the floor and subsequent sauron eye when gandalf touches it is simply not visceral (these things can make me jump on the hp-2). Environmental noises are out there, but just arenât âaround youâ. You hear crickets, and the fire in the background easily, but itâs like they are everywhere somehow? The good news is sub-bass is very good. Anything that gets low enough that the frequency itself creates the effect is quite present. (in this respect, it may also beat the Zen. Sub bass is not this clean or present)
Anyway, not my choice for movies.
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So sue me.
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